Beyond Reasonable Innovation

March 26, 2019

Driving Eureka! Newsletter 18

This is the 18th episode of the Driving Eureka! Podcast. Segment 1: Beyond Reasonable Innovation; Segment 2: Two Rules for Creating Ideas; Segment 3: Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. Subscribe to learn how to Find Filter and Fast Track Big Ideas.

Show Notes

The Driving Eureka! Podcast Episode #18

Episode 18 – Being Beyond Reasonable

The James Taylor Concert – Over the Top

To Stressed to Innovate?

Creativity Not for Every Business?

An Encounter at Kinkos

No Tools or Training = Problems

Driving Eureka! Book Segment

Two Rules for Create Sessions

Alex Osborne – Invented Brainstorming
Book: How to Think Up


Osborn – Two Rules

How to Engage All as an Executive

Keep the Executive Out of Create Sessions?

Quantity Creates Quality

We’re Going to Need a Bigger Drill Bit

Dumb ideas Can Spark Big Ideas

Tendency to Relax After a Big Idea

Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy

Brain Brew Wants Complexity

Besides Wood What Learnings are the Next Thing

What is Heritage Grain?

Craft Cocktail Recipe – Algonquin Cocktail

Step 1

Step 2

Step 3

Step 4

Step 5




Tripp: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Driving Eureka! podcast where we share ideas and advice for helping you find filter and fast track big ideas.


Tripp: [00:00:14] Hi I’m Tripp Babbitt advisor to global organizations on the Deming philosophy and host of the Deming Institute podcast.


Doug: [00:00:23] And I’m Doug Hall inventor speaker teacher and whisk(e)y  maker. I’m also the founder of the Eureka ranch and author of the driving Eureka book.


Tripp: [00:00:33] This is episode number 18 of the Driving Eureka! podcast. And in this episode we’re going to talk about being beyond a reasonable so the new innovation standard is beyond reasonable. That innovations can be meaningful wonderful better than expected. So first of all with the theme that you pick for this newsletter what was the what was the inspiration.


Doug: [00:01:08] So my high school sweetheart and my wife of many many years Debbie for Christmas gave me tickets for us to go see James Taylor and his all star band with Bonnie Raitt. And so we went to the show and I like James Taylor I’d seen him before was you know I was ready for him to be sitting on a stool playing the guitar. You know the typical James Taylor kind of tour right. And the show blew me away. It just absolutely blew me away. Okay. I mean you know OK City that they did the little stuff right OK. They started on time I hate it when you get there and they start 20 minutes late. He started on time the headliner Bonnie Raitt was not a warm up. It was a real show. I mean are a world class show. The band you know he says himself. And the all star band you know and that wasn’t just marketing b.s. I mean this was like incredible artists and and they were treated by him and onstage with solos that were not just your token ones but I’m I mean I’m talking like ridiculously good and then the set you know you think of James Taylor you think of like coffeehouse you know who you know here with basketball. Yeah. We weren’t talking about ridiculous state of the art video projection moving three dimensional elements and video directing where thus it was like it was like a movie you were watching not just you know some numb nuts hitting buttons flipping from Camera three to camera two and play video.


Doug: [00:02:53] I mean it was really choreographed. I mean I guess is the only other word for it. And but then despite all of this. So this is like big rock show. I mean he’s rocking it out at times then it’s then he did the stool thing but the video took you to a whole nother planet. When he was doing it but you know despite there’s probably about 14000 people in the arena you still felt like you were sitting in a coffeehouse because both he and Bonnie were able to be fully present in the moment and they were like having a conversation with you. I mean it was truly amazing and as I’m going out I’m thinking what did they do. And I said no what they did is they went beyond reasonable and they didn’t dare start with being proper imprudent. They didn’t do the things that I expected. They didn’t just tick the boxes and be good enough. They got too good and then they went to ridiculous and then they went so far beyond reasonable that your head just blew out. I mean even the on call at the end was like OK I’ve had everything I could have. And then they just blew you away again.


Doug: [00:04:01] And so I realized that when we do new things part of it is we’re stressed when we do innovation we’re stressed to get it done with stress to get the work done. We’ve got so much to do to ship or whether it’s a new service or a new system. There’s so much work to do that we end up compromising compromising compromising and but that’s not what’s going to help you win what’s gonna help you win is get the fundamentals down. Get your meaningful uniqueness in. And then after you’ve got your meaningful uniqueness. Now how can you go to ridiculously beyond reasonable. That’s how you create raving fans not customers but raving fans. That’s how you end up with some old fart boasting that James Taylor is one of the coolest concerts I’ve ever seen. And and and Springsteen of course is at the top. You got Springsteen up there at the top because the boss is the boss. But this was truly amazing. And I don’t care if you like James Taylor or not see this show. It is a work of real artistry and caring to do something amazing and that’s what we’ve got to get into our innovations. We’ve got to get that soul and you know Tripp we’ve talked about craft and this is this is the embodiment of the spirit of craft we really really care and just amazing just amazing.


Tripp: [00:05:31] So you know I say listen to you Doug and I and I go through this and I know you to be a very creative guy in the first place and the fact that that you pointed out this concert as being something unbelievable tells me something that is probably true. Unbelievable because I think it would be a lot for you to be impressed by that but I’m also. But there’s also one side of me and I probably share this with a lot of people which is OK. But they’re artists they’re creative people anyway. And you know they’re constantly coming up with their think new things that’s that’s their that’s their gig that’s they’ve got to come up with new songs they’ve got to come up with new ways to present themselves to the public. Those types of thing but I’m a banking or I’m in doing heating and cooling H fact types of things and organizations. I don’t I mean that’s great for them because that’s I guess that’s their industry but our industry is the be proper and prudent. So so so what what am I missing.


Doug: [00:06:32] Well OK so so let’s take that in two steps. OK. One is that OK see you work at a proper prudent bank. That’s well respected and well done. OK. So all you have to do is just do your job and everything will be fine that doesn’t create growth that doesn’t create raving fans that just says they’re not stupid. OK. They’re doing what I expected James Taylor does not need.


Doug: [00:06:59] In fact one of the things that struck me is my God he must really care a lot because he has no need. This guy’s legend status. Okay. He can just walk out and sit on the damn stool. He didn’t need to have a band of 10 All Stars which means 10 egos. Let’s just be clear. He didn’t have to put up with that. He didn’t have to have all the video craziness which what it takes you know being in the digital space a lot ourselves. How much work that takes. He did this because of his desire to give his his fans something truly amazing. I mean this was he cared to do something better. It wasn’t just good enough. And I don’t care what you’re in but you can take it to another level beyond. I mean I mean I just went to a site called FedEx now but the old Kinko’s and I was I went there to print brochures for the craft whisk(e)y  show and I did it and the guy there I walked in and I said it wasn’t busy but I said I said Jeez. I and I’d like to print this he says can you make it a PDF. I said yeah but when you make it a PDF it sometimes shifts a little bit.


Doug: [00:08:08] So the margins are off. He’s all man. I know exactly what you say. No problem. Yes I tell you what. Give it to me. I’ll work with you let’s just try it. And so we went through four times I made the PDA F and he went through to check it and then he turned around he said. He says I see the paper you’re using. He says you know you can use that if you want but here let me show you this thing. And it was less money than the one I was looking at. But he says with those images you’ve got to have some beautiful photos of the art. He says that’s gonna just really pop more. I know it’s less money but I think I think it’s better for you. That was given a shit you know. I mean that’s beyond reasonable. That’s not just like here. Let me print your thing for you. You know I mean that was beyond reasonable. I mean he took the time to do that with me. How do we fare. There wasn’t a lot of line and so it was easy for him to do it but he didn’t have to. He didn’t have to do that. And that’s what I mean.


Doug: [00:09:04] And so I don’t care if you’re working at Kinko’s. I don’t care if you’re working at a bank and I don’t care if you’re a legendary singer songwriter. You know it’s about whatever that standard is. How do you take it beyond. How do you get people to say Oh my God I can’t believe what they just did.


Tripp: [00:09:22] You know in a previous episode we talked about going deep and as you were talking they’re thinking of this Kinko’s you know customer service aides I don’t know exactly what the title would be but this person obviously had skill and deep knowledge of what looks good what it doesn’t look good but it seems like there would also be competing things associated with that. Like if the line was longer or or maybe it does it doesn’t have the skill associated with it. Is that what kind of pushes out some of the stuff as far as being able to be reasonable or unreasonable or beyond reasonable.


Doug: [00:10:03] I think it’s a very fair point. If the workers it’s fundamental Deming 94 percent the system if the worker doesn’t have the tools and doesn’t have the training then then it’s not possible for them to even imagine how they can help and so it’s a very fair point. Have you given your people. It’s not a matter of just telling them to work harder. Be nice to customers. They’ve got to know more. They’ve got to know about it. They’ve got to know what impact different papers have on different things that you’re printing. I mean if they don’t if they’re not taught those things and you can’t get it by osmosis that’s not reliable. One has it one doesn’t. But are they taught those things is probably a key element why sometimes people don’t know because they don’t know how could they know.


Tripp: [00:10:50] It’s a fair point.


Tripp: [00:11:01] It’s time now for the driving Eureka book segment with author and inventor Doug Hall.


Tripp: [00:11:13] Well let’s move to our Driving Eureka! book segment which is tool rules for create sessions in mass effect. Doug as I started to read this I sit there. OK. Are we moving off of our theme here going back to the create set sessions associated with beyond reasonable but you kind of pull it back into this but you identify these two rules for create session create session for people who maybe don’t know is kind of the beginning of the process find filter flat fast track big ideas finding a big idea and going through the process of creating something that that’s not there. So once you take us through these two.


Doug: [00:11:53] Well I mean the basic dimension here is this. Ok. So I say beyond reasonable and you go OK fine. You know what what do you mean. And so you need to have some stimulus you need to spark some stuff. We need to get the juices flowing and the best way I know is to recreate session. And as you know we’ve done a lot of research on the value we’ve talked about a stimulus and diversity and driving up fear. But at its root also there was this fellow named Alex Osborne 1942 writes a book called How to think up.


Doug: [00:12:24] And he’s the guy who invented it. Yes there is a guy who invented the concept and the name brainstorming okay. And in that book he outlined two fundamental principles that were the key which are embedded in all that we teach in what’s written in driving Eureka and in driving Eureka I give a shout out to the work of Alex Osborne of the New York ad agency BBDO. He was one of the O’s and and so he he laid out two principles that were key which we have found today. I vowed Reveille today to them and are as true then as they were now sometimes people say three and four rules that’s wrong that the book has to is what he says. And it’s really true that when it comes to creating ideas and we’ll just link it directly that are beyond reasonable that are really opening up our mind to the what if there are two fundamental rules. One is suspend judgment and number two is quantity creates quality so the first thing you have to do is you’ve got to suspend judgment when you’re sitting there with ideas. If you put out an idea and you immediately kill it soon no ideas are suggested and you know if I align this with our stimulus response approach where the stimulus axis stimulus for more ideas.


Doug: [00:13:47] The minute I say something that idea sets off a chain reaction of other ideas which causes somebody to say something which causes somebody else to say something which caused somebody else to say something. Next thing you know you’re at a cool idea so bad idea. Plus another idea plus another idea plus another idea equals a wicked cool idea with the basic mint. What I’m talking about the tendency we have is when people get into a negative mode is what they’ll turn around and do it the minute somebody says well that’s stupid. Well you never get the chain reaction that can get you to wonderful you get to nothingness. And so you have to open it up as a way to do it. And in fact one of the things I do and I tell in the newsletter one of the things that we write about the book is when I’ve seen you leaders their senior leaders don’t realize it. But even with just their body language if they communicate. And so when I’m working with a senior leader one of the things they told me to do is I said Okay I want you to go into a group while we’re creating ideas and I want you to not say anything just listen.


Doug: [00:14:50] And then the group ends so which ya get they were OK but not really that great. OK I said I have to tell you what I want you to the next group. I want you to be one of the first people to speak and I want you to say the dumbest thought you can possibly have is what I mean. I know I want you to say something stupid to expand the world and I want you to listen as well I don’t know anything I said Well here I go. I’m good at stupid. So here’s a couple of stupid things. Pick one of these. So they go underground. They come out after this. So what do you say. I said he said it’s amazing. I said the stupid thing. Like we talked and it was amazing how many ideas came out that were better. I said Well here’s what happened in their heads. They went. They have ideas. Your people have ideas. They got the ideas but they’re scared to say them. It’s the fear thing.


Doug: [00:15:36] But when you said something stupid they thought well at least I can say that because they ain’t as dumb as well you are. Yeah I know.


Tripp: [00:15:47] Yeah I. Yeah I could. I could see that. Yeah. That’s kind of manipulating the group. But but at the same time you know. You know I wonder I wonder how often Doug as you’ve done these where you’ve actually had to go to an executive. Well let’s just kind of get an executive mind frame. OK I’ll do the blue card you know as far as setting the mission and coming up with a narrative that sounds very executive like type of thing but my job really is judgment as most people think of their job and management, unfortunately, is to basically judge and be this kind of I don’t know idolic character you know within the organization that has all the right answers. Do you find yourself often having to just kind of remove those people from the idea creating sessions because now they’re so negative. I mean yeah but I mean you say I get that but. But you say no but I mean that’s a tough road not only for the executive to overcome but also the fear associated with with the way so most organizations as we talked about before is run with that fear.


Doug: [00:16:57] Well but it’s not as bad as that. It’s really not as bad as that. Mostly they don’t know. And and when you sit there and you educate them and you show them that there’s a system for this that they’re not expected to you know be a creative fountain. But but to to work in that it’s a stimulus or response system. And that there’s a system to it. Most of the time design is just sometimes they’ll opt out they won’t do it. But I you know it’s really simple. You know you just to say hey you know what kind of. When you’ve had somebody that really inspired you to do something what was it like you know when you had a coach or something and that’s what geez had a coach I played football or you know I go Yeah yeah.


Doug: [00:17:34] They were with the team. They were not separate from the team. They were part of the team. And and so I need you to coach I need you to give them safe space. I need you to encourage and to lead. I need you to lead not manage and and and we give them a role and we show them how to do it and we provide coaching and support to them. I mean frankly when we do innovation engineering over half the work is with the leadership in a nice way not in a mean way not in a but they’ve not been taught how to lead in this new world where ideas have to happen a lot faster than they used to do. The days when we could do reviews up and down the path are gone. It’s too late. And so I am encouraged that there is much more of an openness to this. But you can’t assume that they get it. You have to take the time to teach them and you have to coach them and support them. I mean Maggie Nicholls CEO the Ranch just told me as a client that signing on for a three year engagement to create a culture of innovation and the leader pulled her aside afterwards the CEO took her into his office and said You do know I’m going to need your help for me to do this and there’s more and more of that coming. I’m very very encouraged. But you just have to do it gently. You can’t you can’t make them feel bad you can’t make them feel stupid you can’t beat them up you’ve got to help them. You’ve got to help.


Tripp: [00:19:03] Ok. Well let’s talk a little bit also about this quantity creates quality piece. Now this this this is very damning. Right. So I mean this goes back to the conversation you had with your father you know that you can actually increase your productivity by having higher quality. So it kind of fits into the overall theme of kind of the Deming frame of thought but it is also counterintuitive from a standpoint of well cut its quantity create quality.


Doug: [00:19:36] So you know oftentimes what we’ll say is we’ll try to get to one idea and then optimize it. It’s like taking one whole and continuing to drill for oil and you hit bedrock and it’s just get a bigger drill bit and keep drilling instead what you want to do is to try a lot of test holes and kind of see how things are going so that you can find the way to hit oil or gold or whatever you’re trying to do. And we. Dr. Andy Van Gundy bless him. He’s passed from University of Oklahoma.


Doug: [00:20:07] He and I did a test where we measured teams and looked at the number of ideas it created and then we independently in this case we had Frito-Lay evaluate the ideas not knowing which team they were from for which were really big ideas and which were not And sure enough the teams that did the most ideas had the most big ideas. Now interestingly you might look at that and say OK. Yes. So they had more ideas to get more big ideas but they probably had a lot ideas that were dumb.


Doug: [00:20:33] Yeah they actually had more dumb ideas too. It’s a package deal but all you need is one great one. And when you win the the what Osborne says what Van Gundy research that we did says is is that you really need to go for quantity and part of it is again the stimulus model that stimulus acts as a spark to help people come up with more ideas.


Tripp: [00:21:00] Ok. On the use of it. So is this. Is this because as the quantity and utilizing that because we’ve talked about stimulus before is that that as you get more and more out there that you’re going further out are or did you do this research even before you really understood stimulus.


Doug: [00:21:22] We understood stimulus. But but this was a separate study that we just did. We just did. I mean they were all using Stimulus for university but it was just literally the quantities that they did because teams have a tendency we’ve learned over the years that the teams will have a tendency to push until they get a big idea and then they relax and in fact one of the things we learned is we would measure the productivity of ideas from the morning versus the afternoon. And generally when teams hit some big ideas in the morning we learned to go into a panic because they would then coast in the afternoon. And so there is a stupid psychology here. They start out with an anxiety I can’t do it. And then they get and they go okay I got it I’m good I’m good I can blow off today you know I have a big lunch a.


Tripp: [00:22:13] Big exhale.


Doug: [00:22:15] That’s right. And so I we usually turn it up after lunch and get them swept up in it and again this is all a psychology we teach it in our innovation engineering like about course. I talk a lot about it and driving Eureka. These are sort of the some of the psychological methods that you have to use to get people to do great things.


Tripp: [00:22:39] Ok. All right. Well what’s move to the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcast where we will take you behind the scenes so you can see what it takes to build a whisk(e)y  distillery business.


Tripp: [00:23:00] The Eureka! ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whisk(e)y  company with patented technology like has never been done before.


Tripp: [00:23:13] Beyond reasonable whisk(e)y products how do you make a wish. Well you and I both know from having conversations with people it’s a pretty using your word prudent. It seems to be customers of whisk(e)y . So how do you go beyond reasonable with whisk(e)y .


Doug: [00:23:33] Well I mean first off like all craft companies beyond reasonable. It’s not just a slogan it’s in the DNA. I mean you’re not a craft company you’re not a true craft company if you don’t have a beyond reasonable dimension in you that there’s just a caring to just go crazy to create real fans. In the case of us you know where we have our way. Everybody’s got their own way and I’m cool with that. You know we’ve run over 400 quantitative statistically significant taste tests to define our products and to make ourselves smarter. We had sought every piece of wood three times before we use it time compression because that would has to be exactly right before we do it. We only use air dried not kiln dried kiln dried the industry with the growth of bourbons gone to kill dried and it just doesn’t have the taste character you kill a lot of the taste when you when you cook it that the air dry doesn’t do. And and it costs a bit more but the flavor is amazing.


Tripp: [00:24:37] Well it was you. It was you. This kiln dried versus the air dried. You’ve got this compression age process that makes things go faster and it’s almost like you’re buying time to do your air dried as your expensive proposition versus where they’re trying to get speed as on doing something kiln dried which compromises the taste. If I’m hearing what you’re set of correct.


Doug: [00:25:03] Everybody’s got their own house style. Our focus is we want to have richness yet clean. We want to have the richness like a Scotch has a lot more complexity versus bourbon which tends to be more simple. And just by its nature but Bourbon is a lot cleaner than than the scotches are. And so what we look for is real richness but clean.


Doug: [00:25:27] So not that singular core note in our bourbon but but a lot more complexity to it and that’s our whole style. And to do that we have to go beyond reasonable on some things in order to get the style that is the style that we like to drink. And and that’s what we’re making so that when people taste they go Oh my God I’ve not heard anything like this. And I’m like well that’s the idea. Good. So they ask it like a question like I’ve never had anything like this. I.


Doug: [00:25:56] Well I hope not because otherwise I’m glad I wouldn’t be shipping it.


Tripp: [00:26:01] Is the story part of this we’ve talked in a previous episode about the story is going beyond reasonable is it is it is it the not just the crafting of the whisk(e)y itself but the complete package of things everything from the way it looks to the story to the.


Doug: [00:26:18] Yes it is but I’m going to be biased and I am an old fashioned make a frickin better product and that’s why I like blind taste tests. That to me is the epitome of it. The problem with the marketing spin which is important you have to have it. We do that. But the problem with that is where that leads to is selling the same old crap as everybody else was just marketing flimflam on it. And and that’s the taste of death. I mean you’re just going to die. I’m talking about build a better product. I mean the Macallan I mean our partners.


Doug: [00:26:55] Full disclosure using sherry casks and making a commitment to them results in a taste that is tangibly meaningfully different than any other Scotch whisky in the world. I mean it’s just different. I’m just sorry it is it’s a different taste. You taste the Macallan you know it’s an account. That’s what we’re trying to do and this to me one of the great challenges in all categories but whisky in particular is we’ve got a lot of people making good enough products that frankly if you tasted 10 of them you couldn’t tell the difference between them. Those are all pretty much the same. That’s not craft. That’s not beyond reasonable be being reasonable is cloning. You know one of the mass market you know Johnny Jimmer Jack’s products kind of thing.


Tripp: [00:27:40] Ok. And so. So as you as you start to look beyond reasonable and maybe I’m going down a path that maybe you wouldn’t go down but you’ve you’ve kind of focused in on the wood you’re running all these taste test and doing different things but are there other things that you’re starting to look at or or you’re saying that might make a difference too as far as whether it’s ingredients or maybe it’s just down that wood path that you’re going deeper on and learning different types of wood. But if you’re to look to the future of you know whisky we’ve talked about different drinks and things like that associate. There are other things that you’re seeing on the horizon as far as things that oh you know what we ran this test at some point I’d like to go down that path. Are there other things like that that you have.


Doug: [00:28:28] Well without giving out too many secrets. Yes there are. But remember the big picture 70 percent of the flavor of whisky comes from wood. OK that’s the reality 25 percent comes from that grain choice that you have and 5 percent comes from the distilling. Now you can. Now that’s assuming you just still good distilling bad is incompetent. So that’s that’s it. We’re gonna throw that out. But you know so the next thing after the wood which is 70 percent so it’s 70 percent at least of our efforts. The next thing is the grain. And the key with the grain is not just the selections of grains which we can do now but I and I’ve talked about this before you know heritage grains we’ve been doing some stuff with some heritage organic grains which you know before mass farming grains they may not have been as stable they didn’t grow they didn’t give us high yield but they had a lot more flavor to them and over time we’ve bred the grains so that they grow well no matter what the climate is and you get a high yield of sugars and stuff from them.


Doug: [00:29:43] And so by going back to some of these heritage grains we’re starting to see and we’ve only run maybe a half dozen experiments with it but we’re starting to see that you can develop some unique tastes and unique characters that you can’t get from the modern you know factory farm grains.


Doug: [00:30:02] You know I think one of the things that’s crazy is you know we’ve got this world and people say their craft and oh yeah I’m craft related craft but they’re buying the same damn you know conglomerate grain grown by factory farms. You know my buddy Jarrett up in Nova Scotia he grows his own you know and and uses it and so he’s getting a unique taste as a result of that. Now that’s a lot of work. You know his view is you’re not real craft if you don’t plant the seed that’s a piece of it here. But you know everybody’s got their own things they’re going to do and I’m cool with that. But the the heritage grains is going to explode in the industry it’s going to be a big area to do it matched with Woods because you start to get some off tastes so you’ve got to then manage the process. And it’s not as simple as you just throw it into barrels you know that will be an area that we’ll be looking at.


Tripp: [00:30:56] Ok. I got to ask a stupid question. What exactly is the operational definition of heritage grain. What does that mean.


Doug: [00:31:04] Well I’m not sure. I don’t know what the Internet would say it is but they generally some of the original grains like red Fife wheat is a grain came from Scotland planted across Canada. And you know and it has a nuttiness to it that the farmer who grows organically on our farm and Prince around them my wife and I have he grows red Fife and you know grains some of it for us and I mean you make pancakes with it. It’s just got this amazing richness of flavor and and nuttiness that’s just incredible so it tends to be the ones pre the genetic engineering. Now it’s not genetic engineering but the plant breeding. I got you. That was done to optimize stuff. So it’s interesting.


Tripp: [00:31:55] Ok. All right. Do you want to provide us a little bit of an update on both the conference that you’ve got coming up and the brain brew whisky distillery slash compression ageing what’s happening. I guess it with with your distillery.


Doug: [00:32:17] Well we’re about to. We’re finishing up an arrangement in the UK. I’ve got conversations going on in some other countries as well. We’re talking to people to open up distilleries. In fact we’ve just before you I was on the on the phone with Europe with another country that’s interested in doing it. This one’s down in the Mediterranean so I’m excited about that. And so we’re doing that but at the craft show we’re gonna be looking for a collection of pioneers Our goal is to get a small number of pioneers this year to basically help build new pathways for profitability for craft distillers.


Doug: [00:32:59] It’s not this or what they’re doing it’s this. And what they’re doing and so we’re presenting a number of different options for people as ways to do it. And so we’re looking for sort of those pioneering spirits. We consider 2019 to be kind of our beta year and then with that mass expansion in the next year. And so whether that’s with new countries starting with the UK this year or it’s with more than 2000 distillers across the US working with more of those across the US as we expand out in order basically to do a small amount to start and then and then grow from there.


Tripp: [00:33:40] Okay. All right well let’s move to our Algonquin cocktail or Algonquin.


[00:33:47] I guess there’s two ways to pronounce it.


[00:33:51] A 1919 cocktail with a brain twist as this is an original then yeah this is a classic you can look it up it came from the roundtable at the Algonquin Hotel in New York City where the artists used to get together and sit and drink we’re taking out it’s basically a you know we’re taking a bourbon sweet vermouth and a juice and classically it was done with pineapple juice and we’re substituting grapefruit juice with it and adjusting the quantities a little bit to get to a better balance and and it really I think this is because I’m trying to think of what’s a beyond reasonable cocktail that you would taste and you go whoa that’s not what I expected. And you’re not used to having a whisk(e)y  martini. Shall we say you know when in a champagne Coop you’re not used to having it that way. And so what what this does is you.


Doug: [00:34:48] Take an ounce and a half and it’s in the show no it’s not and half of our paddle wheel bourbon is what we use with it which is the 200 year wood and if you don’t have that you get another craft bourbon.


Doug: [00:34:57] Half ounce of sweet vermouth and we tend to use Dolin but you can use what you want.


Doug: [00:35:03] And then a half ounce of grapefruit juice. And again to be beyond reasonable you’ve got to squeeze the grapefruit can do bottled is is a reasonable thing to do. Be unreasonable squeeze it squeeze grapefruit juice.


Doug: [00:35:15] Shake it with ice.


[00:35:16] And then stir and put it in a martini glass for a very elegant cocktail that’s made with bourbon. You know that you would not expect. You know you. You’re not expecting cocktails in champagne glasses and I think what you’re going to see is a real growth of these whisk(e)y  based champagne you know with some champagne thrown in it you could add champagne to this but in that kind of martini Coupe I think is what you’re going to see. And it’s just an elegant drink it’s just a very elegant drink. Not not at all what you’d expect.


Tripp: [00:35:50] So is this is this the year. Did you change the recipe or is this. That’s right. I actually have bourbon in it. Sweet vermouth


Doug: [00:35:58] Yeah but it had pineapple instead of grapefruit. OK.


Doug: [00:36:01] So that they I mean they classically would put more. So we cut it to a half ounce. They usually use three quarters of an ounce of vermouth and pineapple and we cut it back to a half because I just think it’s got a better better balance that it tastes yourself. I mean you may you may adjust it up and down obviously but but that’s how we find it to be quite elegant and particularly in this case what happens with eyes with our paddle wheel which uses two year wood. You’ve just got that incredible richness of the old old wood in there and it just sets it off and so you get this kind of like mind blowing taste that you go wow that’s got complexity to it. It’s not like a sugar drink it’s not I mean it’s not a girly drink it’s not a guy you know harsh drink. It’s it’s a drink for humans to have. It has this nice balance between the sweet removes the tightness of the pain of the grapefruit and and then then the bourbon with the corn bourbon it just it really comes together nicely.


Tripp: [00:37:00] Okay. All right. Well beyond reasonable you can be beyond reasonable with whisky products as I guess what I I learned during the brain through whisk(e)y Academy. Many final comments on that.


Doug: [00:37:15] Well yeah I mean so beyond reasonable so be unreasonable is is just part of life it’s what we’re doing and this applies not just to products and whisk(e)y but it also applies to our life how we deal with our partners how we deal with our kids how we deal with our community what can you do that goes beyond reasonable Try it try doing something beyond reasonable and see how people react to it maybe they’ll do it for you too. It’s pretty cool.


Tripp: [00:37:43] All right. OK. Well that concludes this episode of the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy


Tripp: [00:37:57] Because we appreciate you as a listener. We are offering for limited time for thanks. A one hour abridged audio of the driving Eureka book. A subscription to the driving Eureka newsletter which contains weekly advice from Doug Hall on how to find filter and fast track big ideas. And the newsletter has other offers that are not a public. The driving Eureka prescription for success you answer questions and will help you assess your ability to find filter and fast track big ideas and you get advice on how to grow your ability to innovate. And the last item. Access to a Doug Hall interview with a radio legend. To get these offers. Go to w w w. Dot Doug haul dot com forward slash podcast. And don’t forget to subscribe to the driving Eureka podcast on iTunes.


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