Your Innovation Podcast. This is the 24th episode of the Driving Eureka! Podcast. Segment 1: Innovation Mixologists and Bartenders; Segment 2: Why Should You Care?; Segment 3: Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy.
Subscribe to learn how to Find Filter and Fast Track Big Ideas.
The Driving Eureka! Podcast
Episode #24 – Head, Heart and Soul
A Mixologist, Bartender and a Whiskey Maker Walk into a Bar
Difference Between a Bartender and a Mixologist
Mixologists are the Innovation Gurus that Tell You What to Do and Bartenders are the Mentors in Innovation
The Driving Eureka! Book Segment
Brain Brew Whiskey Academy
Brain Brew Whiskey Academy
How to Decide What Brands and Products to Pursue
With New Products/Services – Use Data at the Beginning
With Experience – Half Data and Half Judgment on Where You are Trying to Go
Brain Brew Uses No Additives – Natural Only
At he Beginning Don’t Restrict Yourself
Mixologist to Bartender
Craft Cocktail Recipe – the Lynx Pineapple Rush
Tripp: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Driving Eureka! podcast where we share ideas and advice for helping you find filter and fast track big ideas.
Tripp: [00:00:14] Hi I’m Tripp Babbitt advisor to global organizations on the Deming philosophy and host of the Deming Institute podcast.
Doug: [00:00:23] And I’m Doug Hall inventor speaker teacher and whiskey maker. I’m also the founder of the Eureka! Ranch and author of the Driving Eureka! book.
Tripp: [00:00:33] This is episode number 24 of the driving you Rekha podcasts now as I read this Doug. I’m in the newsletter. I see the things that came through my head were the right stuff you know getting the right stuff.
Tripp: [00:00:49] Head heart soul those types of things but funny. I first started reading it. I almost thought it was a joke. I saw mixologist and a bartender and a whiskey maker there and I’d go on. What the? Where are we going here. So as confused as I was in the last one episode with the commencement speech. I had no idea. So is I don’t know.
Doug: [00:01:16] And you know something, Tripp Okay. That means I’m doing it. Keeping you on edge edge is okay. Some of these episodes are gonna work some or not. That’s the way it works. Why. Do what’s expected you know that be boring. So this.
Doug: [00:01:31] This happened at ADI the American Distillers at in Denver and I was with a guy I met a guy in the morning. He brought a friend that friend contacted another friend who who was into whiskey. It’s a next thing you know that friend and his stepson were getting together because we’d David was out with me we we had we were doing some research out there and it’s like 10:00 at night. I meet this person who’s like three steps removed you know. So we go into a bar and we start ordering cocktails and of course I have my little black bag with me that might have a few others. So I’m ordering like parts of a cocktail and then making the rest well as I’m proud to do. And.
Tripp: [00:02:17] Is that even legal Doug. Can you do that.
Doug: [00:02:20] what what what. I don’t know. I don’t know. Colorado isn’t everything legal So the next day he goes.
Doug: [00:02:31] He says I’m going to teach you something now. How okay. I’m 60. He is older than me but he’s treating me like I’m like the kid right. Then I’m like OK fine. At this point what the hell. And he says you need to understand because I’m talking about cocktails. He says the difference between a bartender and a mixologist because you know these mixologist you know you know the type they got kind of the funky mustache or beard and had use you know the kind you know we’re talking about you know. And that have become you know foo foo in this and I believe you know I’m like oh which is where’s he going. And and we start to talk about it and end it.
Doug: [00:03:13] It struck me as something and I’m going to use it as the feature article. This isn’t the Brain Brew. This is the feature article for this because I’ll connect the dots here in a minute. But you know the mixologist is a guru who creates cocktails.
Doug: [00:03:26] Ok the bartender is a friend who creates connections. OK. So the mixologist is about the chemistry of the liquid the bartender makes connections through cocktails and conversation. OK. OK. So mixologist do brilliant work. I’m not I’m not dishing them but the bartender creates the cocktails that match the unique tastes and desires of the customers.
Doug: [00:03:54] Okay so one is about kind of themselves. They’re a celebrity here to taste the perfect blah blah blah. Oh yes. This is a Mongolian cuckoo berries that I’ve distilled in 17 ways. And the other one is. So what do you like. Okay. And they make this thing that matches your tastes.
Doug: [00:04:14] They adjust and we’ll talk about this more. Well they just maybe the bricks level the sugar level they might address the alcohol they may pick which one. And without even knowing it they make you this cocktail and you go Oh my God that’s amazing.
Doug: [00:04:25] And you go home and look it up on on on the Google and you try to find it and you make it and you go to name it and taste it all which you don’t know is that bartender listened picked up some cues and as they were pouring it into the jigger they made small adjustments based on what they thought.
Tripp: [00:04:43] Mm hmm.
Doug: [00:04:44] And so the it’s a friend told me a story. He walked into a huge wonderful bar in New York City. He sat down and a drink appeared. It was the same drink he’d ordered two years before. That’s a bartender. And he said he saw the guy when he walked in and said hi. The guy didn’t look anything up he just made it I mean because there is a connection a unity of the customer and the person and the drink. It’s about the person in that connection not about just you know the wonders of my mixology ability and it’s the same with innovation. You got gurus who tell you what to do. They preach they pontificate. And their idea is the idea all of this is not worthy. It is the perfection of idea where the bartenders of innovation are the mentors.
Doug: [00:05:40] Sometimes they call teachers or coaches who enable you to do great things they help you discover within your heart brain and soul the right idea for you to pursue at this moment in your life. Then maybe a better idea.
Doug: [00:05:52] But at this moment in time for your organization your capabilities your courage your confidence your capabilities what is right right now for you to do right now to push so I mean basically mixologists are about ego their ego bartenders are about heart head and soul and so I mean I just people think about in your life you know are you fixated on your idea your ego your thinking or are you a bartender embracing the conversation letting your heart mind and soul guide you to the right idea for your current situation your team your organization where you are. It’s about moving outside of ourselves to a bigger purchase and that concept really really struck me. Between mixologists and bartenders and throughout life we have them.
Tripp: [00:06:46] I could say when I think of a mixologist I could say Think in terms of well you said it in here. You say you know they are the gurus that there is one best way and I think all of that has has it hasn’t disappeared.
Tripp: [00:07:05] Everybody is still there. There’s still a lot of believers in that thinking. I call them a majority of the people that believe in gurus. And when you talk in terms of mentors you’re talking about learning and you know that’s one of the things that I look for in methods now purposefully is innovation engineering. It’s not a guru thing. It’s a mentor learned thing and it has to have that learning component in it in order to be useful for my perspective.
Tripp: [00:07:39] In other words that there is always something that that’s improving or moving as opposed to something that’s static and not dynamic in nature. And you know there aren’t enough of those I call them methods. So I consider Innovation Engineering a method about gurus use the same word. But it’s more of a maybe I need to come up with a better name for it but I process something very a rigid process a rule based process or something associated with it.
Doug: [00:08:21] Yeah It is. I mean there is a there is a methodology that you can follow. The key is that you’re really open to the whole. I mean that’s that’s the part is is that you are. I mean it’s kind of Zen I guess. You know you you are in the moment with regards to what is the right thing to do and yes with innovations you’re going to give you a structure we’re going to give redefinition. Yes yes yes. But at the end of it the heart and soul is that that it’s meaningful. I mean our whole definition of innovation is meaningfully unique and that’s not just meaningful as in measuring the purchase intent it’s meaningful to the world to you your organization and to the customer.
Tripp: [00:09:16] Yeah I agree. Yes. Interesting approach to that subject. It’s a little a little surprise but I had a chance to talk to you about it I understand better how how you’re using those things.
Tripp: [00:09:40] It’s time now for the driving Eureka book segment with author and inventor Doug Hall what’s moved to the driving Eureka book segment. So why should you care?
Doug: [00:09:58] So Innovation Engineering. It’s going to as I say in the book excerpt innovation and sharing will help you increase innovation speed decrease risk however that’s not that’s not the most important benefit according to Shawn Scott CEO of the Whitney Blake company of fine company up in Vermont.
Tripp: [00:10:13] And a fine guy by the way.
Doug: [00:10:15] He’s a really good guy. Yeah yeah. You’ve met him. Yes. You’ve got to use it. Most important benefit and I quote him is to make work fun again.
Doug: [00:10:26] Which is not far from Deming premise at the start of seminars when he said why are we here. We’re here to come alive to have fun to have joy in work and by fun we don’t mean frivolous play. We’re talking about the joy the joy that comes from doing something that makes a difference in the world and said in the irreverent way of members of Innovation Engineering movement you know it’s like Austin keep Austin weird. The fundamental aim is they’ll say campus. The fundamental aim of innovation engineering is to enable people to do and I apologize to those offended but is to do cool shit that matters.
Doug: [00:11:03] The fact is is that when you spend your time and energy on projects products and services that matter to you your organization of customers then you will experience a chain reaction. You’ll get your pride of work you’ll get increased sales and profitability prior to work doing something that matters. Make work fun again meaningfulness. It’s all the same. Same concept. Doing things that make a difference that matter. That’s what it’s about.
Tripp: [00:11:36] Okay so a good subject that’s kind of been on my mind when you talk about these things making work fun again.
Tripp: [00:11:49] You equate to failing. I mean that was our our previous episode where we’re talking about failing and and having fun doing it type type of thing. Do you have a thought. Oh I know you have a thought on somebody who’s got an idea but they’re not sure how to to to move it forward.
Tripp: [00:12:21] They’re having. I mean they have fun they’re doing the best that they can. But if you’re at the beginning you’re an entrepreneur you’re trying to figure out what do I do with a product maybe that they’ve come up with what would be give me the first two songs.
Doug: [00:12:43] First things you gotta do is make it real. And whatever for me to make it real make it real and sell one. OK so that’s beyond your scope. The first thing to do is make it real and sell one. I mean you make it real so when you gonna to learn. Yeah I mean you’re gonna get an encyclopedia of knowledge. OK. Now that you don’t even know how to do that if you don’t know how to do that because this is all new to you then you’re gonna have to learn more. Get the book read it go to Doug Hall.com slash VIP sign up and you get the one hour audio summary for free. Free. It’s like no cost. doughall.com slash VIP. I mean you gotta learn more folks. You gotta learn more. This is not random. You know it is not a random dice roll. There are methods reliable methods and systems for prototyping testing learning doing the math doing forecasting. Doing your project P&L. All of this stuff is doable. It’s all doable.
Doug: [00:13:44] Ok you’re not going to learn it from a corporate executive because they’ve rarely done the startups. There’s a big difference between going from zero to sixty five miles an hour and going from 45 to 55 miles an hour and so get help from somebody who has done the startup at least a half dozen times if they’ve never done a startup they’re not going to be helpful to you. I’m just going to stay at straight as it is. And if they’ve done it once and got lucky they’re not going to be helpful to you because they’re going to make it better. But when they’ve done it half dozen times half of them failed. Well whatever. Then they’ve got they’ve got the resilience and the wisdom to be able to help you.
Tripp: [00:14:29] So is innovation engineering. Is that is it. I mean there are concepts in there and I get that. But it is. Is it not for those people. From a startup perspective.
Doug: [00:14:39] No it’s it’s perfectly for them because it’s built off the screw ups of almost 20000 screw ups.
Tripp: [00:14:44] OK.
Doug: [00:14:45] And now it is the lessons of everything that we’ve learned it’s a quantification of it. It is a systematic way to go do it. But and you can do that you come take the online class just sign up do it it’s easy. Nothing to it. I mean you’ll get you’ll get all the knowledge you need. But I’m just saying if you don’t want to do that. Go go find a warrior. You know that’s what you need so.
Tripp: [00:15:08] So from a I guess you know when especially when I first ran a.. You know you get a little overwhelmed at the Eureka ranch for instance and I see all these big companies that you’ve worked with and you know those types of things and I don’t I don’t see the little guy in there type of thing. I see these big you know kind of organizations. But what you’re telling me is these concepts apply easily to a startup and that you guys are set up to help a startup.
Doug: [00:15:35] Yeah. I mean we’ve got 35000 people that we’ve talked over that now probably closer to 40 or 45 by now. But and the vast majority of them are small businesses and we get huge scholarships to those folks for things. So yes. And for individuals who just want to do it all of that’s all doable all doable.
Tripp: [00:15:54] Ok. All right. Well that’s I think that’s good to know. You know as we get into these these things like you know I get overwhelmed. Like I said with the with the with the Eureka! ranch and even then even on the Web site you know you’ve got all the Disney and those types of things. I think it’s important to point out to people these these concepts apply to to startup organizations too and that they can use this method in order to take you know a product that they have and what you’re saying is first the first step. Other than reading the book of driving Eureka is to make it real and sell one.
Doug: [00:16:36] Well yeah. And it’s not just a product. I mean the majority of the time it’s problem solving something in your life right now. But you need to use these things for. I mean because the number of times that we do in the product tends to be small. And so now you’re looking for you know ways to work through that stuff. So it’s to solve your problems. All right. All right. Yeah. Anything else on why should you care that you went in make a comment. No no.
Doug: [00:17:09] I mean. I mean that’s really what it’s about folks is doing stuff that’s gonna matter to you that’s gonna make a difference for you. I mean that’s what you’re trying to do.
Tripp: [00:17:20] This is the Brain Brew Academy Whiskey Academy podcast where we will take you behind the scenes so you can see what it takes to build a whiskey distillery business. The Eureka! Ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whiskey company with patented technology like has never been done before.
Tripp: [00:17:44] All right well let’s move to the Brain Brew Whiskey Academy how to decide what brands and products to pursue. I always I guess as as you’ve talked about the Brain Brew Whiskey Academy in the past it kind of seemed like you started with something and then you kind of found your market and then I’m guessing that you go into your brand is that kind of the method or do I have it wrong.
Doug: [00:18:13] Yeah yeah pretty much. But the challenge that we face is we have an overwhelming number of things that we can do and so we could approach it. You know I’ve talked about earlier on in this podcast I’ve talked about you know mixologists sewer kind of precision people and then the bartenders who are you know connected to the customers under a much bigger heart and head and soul basis. And it’s the same thing here. You know when we first started doing this stuff we used data from the research we did just ridiculous hundreds of research studies and it was probably 80 percent was the data made the decision and our opinions and this is despite I’ve been in this business for 25 years and I know that when you push the edges of something new it’s very hard to know is a new and different good or new and different bad.
Doug: [00:19:08] But now after having done all these tests we’ve kind of moved to the next level. So the first level is you use it. You go use the data to make the decisions because you don’t know enough how people are going to react to the really new things.
Doug: [00:19:20] Then as you start to move up and you get more and more experience we’ve now moved to a higher level where we’re saying OK I know how to make a product that consumers like I know how to make a conscious brand that interest people. That’s not hard I can do that. So now we push the edges and we’re looking at it’s probably about half data that is an aid to our judgment. It’s not our judgment it is an 8 to it and half is a vision for where are we trying to go.
Doug: [00:19:50] In other words we’re building this incredible wall and we’re building it a brick at a time is we’re building it and we’re saying OK what do we want to become. It’s like I’m right in the process right now of changing one of our brands because my vision for what I want it to become as I was we’re thinking down the road of what we want to be. I want to set this up so that I’m set up for what I want to be in the future.
Doug: [00:20:15] And so you know it’s it’s not just it is data but it’s data and vision data. And what we want to be. I mean this I remember working with Nike years ago there you know mentioning a big company and and at the time there was some shoes out for kids head lights in them and I talked to the Nike people and so what do you think they were really popular. So we think so and and it’s fine but it’s not us. We’re about authentic performance. I mean Nike is the swish and swish logo is the sound as you blow by somebody. And so it’s just not what we are. And as you learn more and more about what you are and what you want to be there is ideas people come to me.
Doug: [00:20:58] And so like one of our rules is we don’t use anything artificial. We don’t use any chemicals. You know we use jet 100 percent natural no additives. You know just wood and alcohol interacting together and in clever ways. And that’s just that’s our policy. And and I understand that if I threw in flavors or I threw sugar in I could make it better.
Doug: [00:21:22] Yeah you’re right you’re right. I do that because I just. That’s not what I want to be. And so that’s off the table whether you like it or not it’s off the table. And but you can’t start with that. Sometimes people start with that. They put all these boxes around themselves and they can never get going. You have to get into the game first and you have to try some things. You have to experiment. And I think it evolves at the good companies. People that start out with these rock solid things at the front yeah maybe they’re right maybe they’re wrong but I think you have to get in the game first before you can know that.
Tripp: [00:21:58] So as you talked and you talk about the mixologist to the bartender and trying to equate that to some of the things that you’re talking about here the mixologist being you know the creation of amazing drinks. Is it that you start out as a whiskey maker then as a mixologist and you want to become a bartender. Is that is is that kind of the continuum you’re talking about here or is that.
Doug: [00:22:27] That’s well said. I think that that could well be the case is that you start out technically doing it. It’s just like when you learn to play tennis you know they they teach you how to hold the racquet step swing and you’re thinking so consciously of it and then eventually you get that you can put the spin on it and that kind of stuff because you don’t have to worry about this fundamental so that’s well said that that could very well be the case you have to start how do you learn to play jazz you learn to play the scales first. You know and you play the trumpet you play the scales over and over again and then that teaches you how to do it. You know how to improvise.
Tripp: [00:23:07] You know there’s a there’s a there was a book and I think it was back in the 70s that was called Inner Tennis. Did you ever read that book by chance. No. OK so there’s a book called Inner Tennis. It’s actually a video of this guy. Can’t remember his name right now but the guy that wrote the book but he actually did things really differently when he taught people how to play tennis as opposed to you know teaching all the skill. And this is just kind of me throwing out random thoughts that enter my head. But what he what he learned was people get tied down too much in the technical to the point that they weren’t able to play and then they actually became it. You talk about fear you became an inhibitor. So he picks this one lady in this video off to send you the video. It’s it’s it’s quite amazing.
Tripp: [00:24:00] Doesn’t look athletic at all. Takes a tennis racquet. Didn’t know how to hold it doesn’t know really know what to do and he just starts throwing balls at her and just kind of the reaction and then how he goes about and works with the person on there. Her innate instincts basically to hit the ball as opposed to all kind of all the the technical stuff.
Tripp: [00:24:24] Now technical stuff then enters later but it’s just a very fascinating approach and very different than than anything that I had seen at that time or since. As far as a purchase to hitting it. But I you know I remember even with my kids when we played golf you know they’d worry about you know how do I am I holding the way you hold the club dad or you know those types of things I said don’t worry about hit the ball you know if you can get the hand eye coordination going type of thing. So how much is it. You know it starts to make me wonder how much of it becomes technical and how much of it becomes innate to what you do. Or am I talking apples and oranges because I’m talking about sport versus a whisky.
Doug: [00:25:05] Oh I think there is a fundamental set you need to understand and then you have to make it your own. OK. And I think that’s I think that’s the case in everything. I think there is a fundamental that we begin with and and then we start to learn what we’re doing. I mean I I really do think that that’s that’s the way the system works. And so you have to get those those basic things to start with and then you then you go from there. I just I think that’s the way it works.
Tripp: [00:25:35] Ok. All right. Very good. So moving from a mixologist to a bartender in the whiskey business. Yes it applies. Yes.
Tripp: [00:25:46] So what’s talk about your craft cocktail recipe the Lynx Pineapple Rush it’s got it’s trademarked as this one that’s been around a while or did you.
Doug: [00:25:58] No it’s ours just a Lynx and and then this takes the classic gold rush and it makes it up the people and for the people. So the Gold Rush uses lemon and honey water and it is a bit it has a pucker to it. Because of the lemon to it. And in this case here we switch out and this was inspired down at our Brain Brew Beach Bar in spring Brook Prince Edward Island up in Canada. And I am I am now excited as I say I look forward. You know we are the time has changed the light is changed. We’re looking forward now to the joy of summer and winter is past. And so I figured it was time to start to look towards summer drinks and at least in hopes that we don’t get another dump here. And so we’re taking honey water we’re adding some pineapple juice to it instead of the lemon.
Doug: [00:26:58] So it’s a half ounce of honey water.
Doug: [00:27:00] Half ounce of pineapple juice.
Doug: [00:27:02] And an ounce and a half of our power Paddle Wheel whiskey.
Doug: [00:27:06] And a splash of champagne. And if you don’t have champagne you can use 7 up or diet 7 up if you want and that little bit of sparkling gives us that kind of a beach drink which is very unique for a whiskey to be able to get kind of a beach drink out of whiskey in fact if you take the exact same thing and you make it with vodka you gotta go man.
Doug: [00:27:28] That is very good. The whiskey really gives it the backbone and and it’s just it’s a fun light drink. If you shake it the pineapple frosts a little bit. Served in a champagne Coop. If you want and it just it’s elegant it’s fun. It’s light and fresh. And if you don’t like whiskey you’re going to love this one and if you like whiskey you’re going to love this one.
Tripp: [00:27:57] I see a common theme here in the Paddle Wheel seems to be your go to mix mixed whiskey. Ah no I’m sorry. Keel boat is the one the I normally about usually.
Doug: [00:28:08] Yeah. So this one here I’ve gone to Paddle Wheel. It uses the 200 year wood so it’s got a little bit more depth to it. And it’s a little bit richer and so it stands up to the pineapple and the champagne and it just has a better balance. I think you know so.
[00:28:23] That’s interesting. As for as far as those and we haven’t talked about it in a while now. But but you might want to share with the audience the the the four that you’re making have the Keel boat the Paddle Wheel the Tall Stacks and I always forget the other one.
Doug: [00:28:37] Deckhand Deck Deck.
Tripp: [00:28:38] Yeah yeah.
Doug: [00:28:39] So we’ve got four four products and four different whiskeys and easy drinking a 200 year would bourbon five wood Rye which has crazy complexity and then Tall Stacks which is a triple wood smoked a nutty product that bakes in and get ready folks through the summer you’re going to you’re going to see a whole lot of recipes here. Tiki get ready. We’re taking Tiki. You’re going to take it to a new place and with it wonderful smoke cloud in it. We’re going to do some cool stuff about this summer so cool.
Tripp: [00:29:11] And then we won’t see you in Cincinnati for three months or something right.
Doug: [00:29:17] Yeah that’s right. You’re going to think migratory patterns like the bird go.
Tripp: [00:29:23] And a different beach and take all your tall stacks and your paddle wheel in their Keel boat.
Doug: [00:29:31] And you have to figure out do we record or do we take a summer hiatus. I think we’re going into summer hiatus. I think we’re going to do. But we’ll figure that out just as we get there.
Tripp: [00:29:41] So OK very good. Any other final comments on Brain Brew Whiskey Academy.
Doug: [00:29:47] Yes. I mean the big thing is folks you’ve got to get in the game. OK. And and the way you make decisions at the start will be different when you have a few thousand bottles under your belt. You got to get in. You’ve got to get in and don’t overthink this stuff. Just get started. Just get started. Make some stuff.
Doug: [00:30:10] Sell some stuff do a crappy and then do it better. That’s how it works. The challenge is is people spent so much time preparing for their opening when you’re ready to open. You better have at least 50 percent of your energy your mental and physical energy because the start is just the start.
Doug: [00:30:32] Now you’re in the race now you’re in the race and that’s what you really need the energy and so manage that I don’t tell my teams all the time or we’re introducing weather software for the Eureka! Ranch or new training programs or inventing things I said keep your energy for the end. And you know the game is one running through the tape at the end. And too many people blow all their energy they get started and they got no resources no money left. You just got a because once you get in then you can start. That’s when the fun part begins
Tripp: [00:31:10] Because we appreciate you as a listener. We are offering for limited time for things a one hour abridged audio of the driving Eureka book a subscription to the driving Eureka newsletter which contains weekly advice from Doug Hall on how to find filter and fast track big ideas. And the newsletter. Has other offers that are not paid public The driving Eureka prescription for success. You answer questions and we’ll help you assess your ability to find filter and fast track big ideas and you get advice on how to grow your ability to innovate. And the last item. Access to a Doug Hall interview with a radio legend
Tripp: [00:32:02] To get these offers. Go to www.doughall.com/podcast. And don’t forget to subscribe. To the driving Eureka! podcast on iTunes.