#33: 4 Ways to Make Innovation Education STICK

August 2, 2019
Driving Eureka! Podcast
Driving Eureka! Podcast
#33: 4 Ways to Make Innovation Education STICK

Your Innovation Podcast. This is the 33rd episode of the Driving Eureka! Podcast. We are going deep on topics and will no longer have three segments. Subscribe to learn how to Find Filter and Fast Track Big Ideas.

Show Notes

Driving Eureka! – Episode 33

Format Change

We are Going Deep

The Data from the Department of Commerce – Training = 400% Increase in Value and Certified 4800% Increase

500 Companies in Survey

4 Ways to Make Innovation Education Stick

The Factual Data

Innovation Courses Need Data and Don’t Have It

Final 3 All About Emotion

2. Cycles to Mastery

How It Works

Is Your Innovation Education Accredited?

#3 – Teach and Do in the Same Course

VIO vs Sphere of Influence Real Life Projects

Lean and Six Sigma to Innovation Engineering

#4 Provide Documentation and Tools

Innovation Engineering Changes Culture

Eureka! Inventing and Innovation Engineering


Tripp: [00:00:00] This is episode 33 of the Driving Eureka! podcast where we’ll talk about a format change to the podcast and for ways to make innovation stick.

Tripp: [00:00:14] The Driving Eureka! podcast with Doug Hall and Tripp Babbitt is sponsored by Eureka! Ranch the ranch specializes in helping companies find filter and fast track big ideas.

Tripp: [00:00:30] And in this episode we’re gonna make some changes with the way that we go about putting the podcast together and this helps us think so Doug wants to share a little bit about some of the thinking that we’ve been talking about with regards to these changes and some of the writing projects you have in all of that stuff.

Doug: [00:00:47] Yeah. So the you know the Internet is a world where that tends to be lots of soundbites lots of short pieces you know short quick things you know and other forget being with a senior vice president at a major corporate global corporation.

Doug: [00:01:09] And when we walked in and we started talking about innovation he says. So what’s it take to change my culture. I said Well it’s hard. I’m just telling you. And it’s gonna take a lot of work. And I start to go through it. And he stopped me and he said Excuse me. I said yes. He says thank you. I know what you mean. Thank you. He

Doug: [00:01:27] Says thank you for not trying to make me believe that I’m an idiot that it’s just a simple little thing and if I do this magical thing everything’s perfect. I know it’s hard. Would somebody please admit the fact that these things are hard.

Doug: [00:01:40] So I was thinking of recently because he’s since retired and and thinking about him and thinking about some projects I’m doing for a new journal that’s going to come out an anthology of everything to do about innovation and persuasion and that I’m writing a chapter four and some other projects I’ve got I I thought you know maybe we should just go our own way here. Maybe we should try something different. And so we’ve been doing the Driving Eureka! We’ve had a number of different articles in it. Talking about whisk(e)y talking about books talking about big things and I thought what if we just really focus this and it’s around the for profit nonprofit which is the innovation Engineering Institute and the work we do there which is about teaching the innovation entering system for enabling innovation by everyone everywhere everyday. And instead of skipping over the surface. Go deep. Go deep on one subject each week one subject. And that’s I have recognized that this could be some people who who who like to have it shallow kept putting it by bias as a guy writes real books you know not the 40 page books or the hundred and twenty page books but the you know 300 400 page books. I mean that writes real I mean let’s go deep on some issues each week let’s talk deeply about it and package it up the way we teach with innovation engineering around problem promise and then the method slash the proof on how to do it.

Tripp: [00:03:12] Okay. So this will be the kind of the format of it if you will as this problem promise proof portion. This interface will be something we’ll see in every episode.

Doug: [00:03:22] Well that’s that’s a gross statement.

Tripp: [00:03:25] Okay.

Doug: [00:03:26] Which is you know consistency. Hob guy.

Tripp: [00:03:30] I am talking with Doug Hall.

Doug: [00:03:31] I’m talking to you that could be this forever. I know you love back. But that’s not in a general sense.

Doug: [00:03:39] I’m going to set up a problem make a promise and then take you through the proof in the method by which to do it. Of which 80 percent 90 percent of it’s going to be about how. Okay. Because I mean that’s that’s the real challenge. And so this will be a general structure and we’ll play with it for a while and then we’ll innovate and we’ll find something else. But I’m hoping that you know basically as we run over the next three months sort of through the times when the days are long and the nights are short that we can do this and then come fall then it’s time for something different. Okay.

Tripp: [00:04:17] Very good. Well let’s start with the the 33  episode but the first episode episode of a new format and a new way of going about the way we’ve put together this podcast.

Doug: [00:04:29] So let’s think of it as thinking deeper.

Tripp: [00:04:31] Thinking deeper okay a new way of thinking deeper. So we say Okay so four ways to make innovation education stick four times to 28 times more. That’s the subject. All right.

Doug: [00:04:48] Yeah. Keep this wide acceptance of the need for innovation organizations and in support of enabling innovation there are countless courses in classes endless courses and classes that companies can provide to their employees. But sadly the vast majority of the time it doesn’t seem to make a difference when employees come back to their organization. They quickly revert to their previous non innovative mindset. They just get caught up in it. I mean is this a problem you’ve seen.

Tripp: [00:05:20] Oh sure. Because as most systems and most habits that I’ve seen once an organization starts to do something that’s a it’s like a speeding ship. You know you can’t just turn it all of a sudden and turn it around like the Titanic. You know it just keeps moving forward so people have got habits and when you go back it’s very easy for organizations to fall back into old thinking.

Doug: [00:05:44] I am reminded of a time we were doing an event there were probably 400 people from around the world it was a global meeting of one of the mega car companies up in the city of Detroit and they were committed to innovation. We’re going to innovate. We’re going to innovate. Bob odds are we’re teaching and we’re having them do stuff and I just wandered around and I got around the back of the room while they were working on something. I said What do you think. There are a couple of guys sitting there and they said they took a sip of coffee and they said I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I kind of heard it before. You know this new guy. This is this thing. We’ll just be calm. He’ll be gone and then we’ll be on to the next one. I mean they’re not being mean and they’re being truthful totally truthful absolutely truthful. So clearly this is a big problem something we need to think deeply about. OK. So that’s why I began to do this. All right. So the promise I’m going to make to you is to ignite and sustain employee engagement in innovation resulting in a 4 x to 28 X greater impact. So I’m not talking about 5 percent or 10 percent I’m talking 400 to 28 hundred percent increase. OK. So big promise. OK. So I got your attention. Absolutely. So now the proof. How am I gonna do this.

Doug: [00:07:12] Well first off I’m going to give you the numbers right up front because I got data on this one as you would figure. And then I’m going to show you the four ways for doing it. The data comes from a study that was conducted as part of a Department of Commerce n’est MEP project with U.S. manufacturing companies. They trained a whole lot of people using the methods you hear. I’m going to talk about and they found that versus people that did basic training they just attended the training those that were trained but not certified who who went into a deeper training literally where they tracked the projects they did and the value of the projects to the company they did 400 percent more not USDA you know four times nothing is not much but there was actually something with the basic training it was just very very small. OK. Then they looked at people at certified who went through the full training so went through partial training you know basic training a little bit more staff training and then did the full thing 28 times more. So that’s like a big number no matter how you think about it. OK. So the question is how do you get that lid off. How do you get that lid off. Well four things. OK. So before I go into that. OK. Thoughts on that. Thoughts on that data.

Tripp: [00:08:29] No. Those those are impressive. And I’m thinking you’re talking about the innovation engineering training not just any training when you’re talking about the 4X or the four times what’s going out there where somebody is gone through let’s say a two or two and a half day program and then there’s the broader application and that’s what I’m talking about now.

Doug: [00:08:52] In both cases. Yeah. Both cases it’s innovation engineering training. OK. Cases with a 4 x 28 X is innovation and job training it’s just a matter of the degree of training that they were given. Casey sometimes do training is kind of like a drive by shooting you know just drive by hope a miracle occurs you know. You know and so there’s different levels of the program. And so that’s what we’re talking about.

Tripp: [00:09:16] Okay. So so can you. Is there is there any more you can share as far as the the Department of Commerce study. I mean did they look at 50 companies they look at 100 companies and how did how did you conclude the kind of the four times 28 times.

Doug: [00:09:30] So it was closer to 500 companies. Oh wow. OK. And and we could track it because we had they were given innovation engineering labs and we could track the value of the projects that started in the company. OK. So we could actually track the real tangible projects. So this is this is really grounded in like real data.

Tripp: [00:09:51] Ok. Great. OK. Well now I want to know about the four things.

Doug: [00:09:55] Ok. So the first one is give rational proof. For the emotional transformation required to innovate. OK so our mindset change for humans is tough. Among other things when they when they adopt a mindset of innovation they need to accept the uncertainty of the scientific method. You know where you say I like the scientific method. Well the scientific method means you come up with some hypothesis that has no certainty to it that you’re going to go run it’s an experiment. And this can be hard because people want to know the answer before they start.

Tripp: [00:10:31] Yes.

Doug: [00:10:32] And related to this is they need to accept the fact that they are going to fail. You cannot adopt innovation and be right all the time. You got to get over yourself. It’s not going to happen. And this is really hard for many people they have to be right. Well OK we’re not talking talk about the school system’s screwed up. We’ll do a deeper thinking about education coming up. But on them the mindset of education. But fundamentally they’ve got to be willing to accept uncertainty. They’ve got it. We’ll be willing to accept Phil and this is really hard and these challenges create fear and that fear is both rational and emotional. And I’m gonna start with the rational because I find unless you.

Doug: [00:11:14] Dissolve the rational you can’t get to the emotional which is actually the bigger challenge. But it’s like the first thing is you’ve got gotta get over the rational part. And the challenge we’ve got is the most. I mean in fact I would think everything except for innovation engineering and I’m I’m not boasting. Show me I’m wrong. Somebody show me I’m wrong. Most of these programs are based on war stories or Apple Google Facebook legends a book of something but there’s no factual data. I mean we’ve got 22 binders big a four inch three ring binders of academic data and proprietary studies that have been done on over 25000 innovation successes and failures hundreds thousands of men every 17 billion active innovations we’ve got real data behind the methods that we teach with this and and. And if you if you’re going to try to get people change make sure the programs grounded in data not. Oh it’s popular it’s hip it’s Bobby. Well you know there’s a lot of things that are popular that doesn’t make them great. Gangs are popular. That doesn’t make them great. We have to have some data behind this. If you’re going to make the rational transformation. OK so. So why do you think rational proof as a starting place.

Tripp: [00:12:33] Yeah. There is there. There’s a big tug on me on this so there’s no rational giving me data giving me a scientific method which you know both of our backgrounds are from the Deming philosophy so. So we really get into those things. But I also know that emotional is how people make decisions ultimately. You know that that push comes to shove and I’m not denying any of the data that you have here but there’s this emotional aspect of people buying into something that’s why we have such bad decisions today. Is somebody emotionally gets involved with an idea and spends money on it and until it’s dead or maybe they get lucky and it moves forward.

Doug: [00:13:21] So I won’t say it but it’s about and not or.

Tripp: [00:13:26] Yes.

Doug: [00:13:27] It’s about a not or and see. And therein lies the challenge. So their defense the defense of those people teaching courses that are all feel good sing Kumbayah all this corn feeling is it’s all emotional baby. Let’s just feel it. But the problem is is that three quarters of the brains out there have a logical rational mindset whether we like it or not. And it’s not good enough to do do the rational. It’s not enough to do the emotional we have to do both.

Tripp: [00:13:56] I agree.

Doug: [00:13:57] But the starting place is you’ve got to have some rational proof in the thing that’s missing from ninety nine point nine percent of innovation courses is there is no data to back up any of it there’s no data there’s no data as well. My cousin does this or or I’ve done this for a whole bunch of time. Yeah. Did it stick. No it didn’t stick. That’s the issue we’re talking about stick factor here folks and to get stick you got to be have your feet grounded in data.

Doug: [00:14:28] And that’s the place where we start now and move. And frankly the next three are all about emotion. OK. All about emotion. But you got to have the data. No math no stick. OK. Because otherwise it’s a random dice roll and there will be too much variance in it. Little exists. And because it is what’s interesting is the minute we talk about innovation with innovation engineering we do testing quantitative testing we do sales forecasting and innovation people do. You’re ruining the spirit of it. Well get over yourself. Okay. And then you whine that when you get into the system the accountants kill you. Well guess what. Get over yourself. Do you want to just have a feel good playground or do you want to ship baby ship and make money. That’s the difference that we’re talking about so it starts with the rational brain which is totally contradictory to all the other trainings of feely ethnography and in the feeling of the design and and and the spirit of collaboration and yes those things are all wonderful.

Doug: [00:15:32] But we have to have our feet grounded solid because eventually you’re going to have real world adults. We’re going to have to evaluate the stuff.

Tripp: [00:15:39] Ok. All right so so let’s get to these two three and four that you say are more tied into two to the emotional.

Doug: [00:15:47] So the first the second thing is cycles to mastery. OK. You’ve got to design the course to understand the diffusion of innovation challenge. Everett Rogers wrote the book diffusion of innovations fifth edition now. Any any really does an amazing job and back to supported with data why I like Kim explains how and why new ideas spread across the culture where that’s a culture of your customers or whether it’s a culture across your company. And in simple terms innovations move from innovators which are two and a half percent of our population to early adopters which are 13 1/2. They’re actually the second group. The innovators they’ll do anything. Early adopters and come next an early majority 34 percent late majority 34. And then the laggards 16 percent in basically each group holds back on adoption till they observed the group before them has made the switch. Now for efficiency companies like to apply training to everyone at the same time. Basically spread it like peanut butter across to everybody. And the result is you get a mixed collection. You get those people who are for it and those are against it. And and this creates a conflict. You get tribes start to develop okay which doesn’t create momentum now to soften these differences. We found that part of what’s happening with Everett Rogers is there’s a repetition that happens. The innovators and the early adopters they’ll grab on pretty quickly. The early majority have to see it a number of times the late majority a lot more times before they’re going to start to buy in. And so what we’ve learned is that instead of a one in Doug class where you teach a subject and then what you’ve learned in. And you have to now adopt it. That’s only going to happen with the crazy people the innovators. I love them but they crazy. OK. And what we have to do is we have to take them on a journey of dozens if not hundreds of cycles of learning. Till they master and adopt the new mindset.

Tripp: [00:17:49] Ok so one quick question I have for you. Doug. When you’re starting this then you’ve kind of laid out kind of this innovator’s early adopters early majority those types of things. Who. Who are you taking then and kind of the first series if it’s a if it’s a smaller tribe or you’re trying to take one from each group or are you just focusing in on the innovators and the early adopters.

Doug: [00:18:13] I’m no I mean you if you leave it to its own what’ll happen is it’ll be the innovators and early adopters that will self select to go do it. But the fact is it takes a long time then to go through the organization. So I’m just going to take whoever the company wants to have do it. OK. OK. Yeah I’m just gonna play the hand I’ve been dealt. I’m an engineer. The factory has to run. But what I’m gonna do is with innovation engineering we’re gonna do take a cycles to mastery approach where we’re gonna give them a digital class a short seven minute video that presents a theory of a sub skill or skill. Then we’re gonna give them a lab class that builds their capability. So where they get to see it feel it touch it OK and it’s broken down into small parts. OK then we can talk more about this and then point them three there we’re going to do an application class that creates confidence and that’s the biggest longest class.

Doug: [00:19:04] In other words rather than teach them and then drive by and say Good luck folks. Hope you have a good day. You’ve taken the class. Good luck with that. And then they go back go What the hell am I doing. Instead we’re going to work with them to help them make it real and and then finally we’re going to do a reflection class which we can actually do a number of times to get them to connect the dots and the theory to the reality in the workplace. And so what we’re doing is enabling diffusion to happen inside that person. And what you find is that some people the innovators and early adopters are watching digital class. I got it. This is awesome.

Doug: [00:19:39] Some the light bulb will go off during the lab class. I mean when we’re doing three and five day things because he goes through this journey you know sometimes it’s day four and they go. I get it I get it now. And so it’s allowing this to happen at their own pace.

Doug: [00:19:55] But giving him those repetitions to start to build it. Now you’re only going to do this if you really believe that it’s going to be important for your organization to get a nimbleness and ability to innovate and change if you don’t believe it’s important then just whatever you know. But if you want to make it work this will make it work. And importantly is that instead of being punitive.

Doug: [00:20:21] Ok. Because you know we we unlike other courses and in fact I think I think you should challange people is do you have college accredited courses. You know to be college accredited you have to go through peer review you’ve got an accreditation. I mean you have to meet some standards. Most courses that you’re sort of Joe flow beats is instant creativity class or innovation guru class or I did something lucky once at Starbucks and so here I am now a genius. And so you know learn from me whatever you know. But there’s no real substance behind it you know. And so because we do real classes certified on can’t you know accredited on campus and we’re gonna go through that process we have to give grades. And but even with the grades you need to make sure if you’re doing a certification or a grade that the learning is not punitive. Instead of pass/fail what we do is we give students coaching feedback on assignments and they are encouraged to resubmit until they reach success. So you know just like you can’t walk out. OK here let me show you the tennis racket. That’s how it works. Ok. Dude you’re ready. Wimbledon you’re up. You know instead you’re going to hit some serves. And they’re going to be bad. And the coaches say you’re a loser loser. No they’re going to give you coaching and you can do it again. They’re gonna give you coaching and you can do again. That’s how it works folks. OK.

Doug: [00:21:48] Some are getting it quickly some will take longer. But everybody has the means to reach the new mindset. We’re not going to have the cool innovation kids and the dorks. We’re going to have one. One culture.

Tripp: [00:22:00] Got it. So. So if I’ve done the digital class you know I do the other lab class these four things the application class and then the reflection class. Is this what gets me my 28 X my 28 times the elements. Yes.

Doug: [00:22:15] Ok. OK. And the key component to this is number three which is teach and do in the same session in the same course start the application. So to get emotional in it’s critical that the innovation training be made real and as part of the course not the course.

Doug: [00:22:34] And now do it. And so many people that do training they don’t like to get their hands icky with the real world. You know they like where they are.

Doug: [00:22:43] I just do the theory with my case studies because I’m comfortable in my case studies because they’re bullet proof. No. And they start asking questions well how does this work. And this you know ah. Oh obviously it’s obvious. No it’s not obvious because see if you look inside the mind if you peer inside the mind of students in an innovation course especially if they’re not the innovators they’re thinking continuously does this make sense for me. How can I use this. When I go back to work how does this fit. How does this fit. How does this fit. And the challenge is that when you have generic case studies it can be harder and harder for you to see the connection that you have because what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to use some creativity to make the transition.

Doug: [00:23:35] And those people that are maybe not going to get it as quickly because they’re lower they’re not going to have that leap of faith. OK. To make that difference. OK. And so it’s going to be harder and harder to see you’ve got to make this absolutely real to them.

Tripp: [00:23:52] Okay. So you’re so. So you’ve you’ve taken the training you’ve done some things during the course of the training that are outside of really what their work is so they can kind of learn and understand and now really in step 3 we’re starting to. How does this apply to my setting and at my where I work.

Doug: [00:24:15] That’s right. So we’re going to do it. We’re gonna do real work and learn and do learning do. I mean even my lecture events I’m moving all of my lecture events from the talking head that I’ve been doing. You know we’ve been doing it for years and I finally just got fed up with it and I’ve decided everything I do is gonna be learn and do learn and do.

Doug: [00:24:33] Because that creates the stick factor much bigger. Now there’s two ways to do this. One is is the company may have a very important opportunity we call it a VIO. OK. It’s some big challenge that the company faces it could be a system it can be product could be anything. OK. Something at. And that group the training is a group that’s going to address this very important opportunity as part of a project. OK. So they’re going to work on a big project to get a proof of concept that this new mindset and that they can do great things.

Doug: [00:25:03] The other way to do it is to have those attending the course work on applying the learning to a project that is within their sphere of influence. Basically something that they have control over something that they think they can manage. It could be a problem a frustration somebody face in their day to day work.

Doug: [00:25:21] It doesn’t have to be huge it’s just needs to be something that needs some fresh ideas. And interestingly we’re finding that a combination of these methods is the right approach to really transforming a culture. The the big V.A. projects create big value for your organization. However the only apply to a small subset of employees that would be working on. The sphere of influence projects create depth of engagement across the culture. And in fact this whole thing is so important. This application it’s 70 percent of the time required to become certified as an innovation Engineering blue belt or black belt. The higher level is spent on application of the learning now. And I understand it’s just like Six Sigma when in the beginning not today but in the beginning it was a lot more time spent on application and it costs more to do this. But the stick factor is a four digit ROI. I mean it’s it’s just it’s amazing what happens here.

Tripp: [00:26:21] So Doug is there a when you look at these two these two different types of projects here. Your very important opportunity or the sphere of influence type of of project. Is there one that you kind of suggest people move towards it as a as a start or is it really up to the organization.

Doug: [00:26:43] Do both.

Tripp: [00:26:44] Do both.

Doug: [00:26:45] You both do both. It’s not linear now but do both at the same time because you’re going to need those people in the engine room to help the thing go because otherwise see if you just take the cool kids off site to do their cool thing and then they hit the regular organization crash you know so you’ve got to get the mindset. I was with a company up in Canada recently and interestingly they had kept everything in sort of the marketing and product development group and now finance procurement are all seeking training and engagement in it because they have systems that they want to innovate on to work faster smarter run. And so we need to get those people that do it if you want to truly create a culture versus a tribe of people that do it.

Tripp: [00:27:31] One one question I have if I’m if I’m an organization out there and let’s say I’m doing lean which I guess would fall under kind of your spear of influence projects you have other people working on things. What’s the difference between. And this gets kind of to your comment at the beginning where the person that’s involved in an organization is going OK. Here’s the next thing. How does that fit in. What’s what’s the difference between let’s say the two.

Doug: [00:27:59] You mean between lean and innovation engineering.

Tripp: [00:28:01] Yeah.

Doug: [00:28:02] Well I mean there. I mean lean is is is a tool box which is fine and it’s and it’s fine for the tools that it provides. You know what we’re providing here is a way within lean. They’ll talk about creating ideas.

Doug: [00:28:18] You know the job map out the set the flow and the value chain. Right. And and and then you have to create ideas but they they just say brainstorm. This explodes that element to it. And it does not only that with regards to systems but it provides really industrial strength tools so lean is a great stepping stone to an innovation engineering engagement in fact many of our top practitioners are lean in Six Sigma people.

Tripp: [00:28:47] So you kind of had that mindset where you’re giving is this this explosion of ideas as opposed to taking the already existing tools that are in a toolkit and trying to apply them and then use brainstorming.

Doug: [00:29:02] That’s right. I mean they find the tools to find that what we’re talking about here is find filter and fast track its acceleration of ideas it’s bigger ideas. It’s enabling people to think faster and smarter.

Tripp: [00:29:14] Ok. All right. I just want to get some clarification. I know a lot of especially large organizations which I know you guys work a lot with. Have a lean or a Six Sigma type of program or both.

Doug: [00:29:24] That’s right. And that’s. And in particular you know this adds value to that in the factory the Lean Six Sigma has had a very difficult time getting to strategy and innovation. We obviously help with those things as well. OK. Different thing. They’re all based off of Deming that’s just a different different. We’re cousins. If you would the last of the four things. So we’ve gone through improved for the give rational proof understand the diffusion of innovation application application teach and do. And then the last thing is more tactical which is provide documentation and tools to make innovation education real see. So the problem is is many of these courses teach theory and abstract methods. But when employees go back to try to use them there isn’t really an implementation. And so everybody implements in a different way. We found that it’s critical to provide documented systems. That’s step by step. Written methods that provide freedom within a framework through implementation. So we’ve put in thousands of hours creating and continuously updating operations manuals in over 100 short videos on how to apply the learning step by step. See you’ve got to reduce it to practice. That’s what we’re talking about. OK. And in that it is like a level that needs to go on if you’re going to do it because otherwise they come back and they just get frustrated. And worse than that we’ve observed that often the existing tools whether it’s for project management problem solving math patents collaboration research anything are designed to prevent mistakes. And this is fine we’re working on projects and problems with law uncertainty but would imply employees try to use their new innovation mindset with old world tools. They get frustrated and soon go back to their old way of thinking what we need is tools to increase speed while decreased risk. And when the tool bat box matches the mindset. That employees engaged in momentum to innovate builds. It’s not enough to give the education you need to provide the tools that enable employees to adapt and sustain the new way of thinking.

Tripp: [00:31:37] So. So as far as the new tools I mean there has to be some flexibility than associated with it because you know when you think of when whenever I hear the word tool I immediately think of of lean because you know it is a to me a very limited tool box. And what innovation engineering offers is a much broader mindset of creativity.

Doug: [00:32:02] While it’s just a right but it’s different it’s just different it’s apples and oranges. OK. But they supplement each other. And when we’re talking tools we’re not talking about just Venn diagrams for Christ sake. They drive me crazy. No I’m talking about digital tools that enable you to do you know five year Monte Carlo risk adjusted forecasting tools that allow you to write a patent in about an hour. You know I’m talking about serious industrial strength tools that allow you to do things you can’t do it. You know you can look at any other way research that you can do at 5 percent of the time and cost. Artificial intelligence systems that read your idea give you ideas and advice for making it better. I mean you know serious tools that Amplify the education. I mean the goal of the tools is to amplify the education.

Tripp: [00:32:54] So. So would you look at organization. There is always the fear of when you’re going deep like you have in this particular episode that people are sitting back. It could be the CEO of an organization or a senior executive organization going. My people would never be able to do this. This is just too hard for you know my organization to be able to apply this. I mean you’re talking about Monte Carlo. You know I’m just trying to get them to come to work on time.

Doug: [00:33:27] Yeah I understand. So you got a bunch of idiots to just fire all the bastards and get a bunch of new ones. Yeah I guess that’s it.

Doug: [00:33:34] Yeah that sounds like a reasonable thing to me. Just fire them all get a bunch of idiots and go get yourself a Steve Jobs. That’s what you need. Yeah. Come on have to be honest with you guys. I think people I know people. So you’re either going to do it and you’re gonna take that employee who comes in with a mindset and you’re gonna just leave in the way they are or do you want them to do it. I would require employees to get continuous education. I want them to keep getting smarter. Otherwise if you don’t get smarter in today’s world you’re getting dumber. See either walk the talk and you believe in your people and you get a better return on investment for their minds.

Doug: [00:34:14] Or you don’t. Now if you don’t. OK whatever. You know success is not guaranteed. Failure is an option. Death of an organization is what happens. Companies die. They go through the life cycle they die. School.

Doug: [00:34:32] Okay so you don’t buy into the philosophy of philosophy of change the people or change the people. I mean that’s the. Yeah. I mean if they’re unwilling to learn that’s a different story. OK.

Doug: [00:34:45] But you know Deming was right. Ninety four percent of the problem is the system 6 percent to worker and that system includes their thinking system and the methods. If you say well we are you got this okay Show me your operations manual for how you created this. Okay I’m waiting. What do you mean. Well well what’s your what’s your system that you teach your boys. Well we don’t have one. Oh so ideas aren’t that important.

Doug: [00:35:07] Well no no they’re critical. I said So what is it a random dice roll. I mean when you do this mindset it’s a game changing impact on a culture. It creates reward for employees and never ending growth of the company. I mean but it’s not as simple as just assign somebody higher rent to goo or send them all to a class. It takes more than that. So and this more than this. By the way this leadership role organization signed rewards systems that’s beyond the scope of this will cover that and another another episode. But you know there’s some fundamental things that you either get serious about this or you don’t. And if you don’t I’m OK. Death. Death is an option. I know you got three years to retirement. So give it up baby. I mean who cares.

Tripp: [00:35:54] So when one last question I want to ask on this is you know when you look at the Yreka ranch you’ve got Eureka! Inventing and then you have this training portion. When would someone decide to put needs something from a Eureka and venting where you guys basically come in and do stuff for them versus a training type of format here. How did how did they play together.

Doug: [00:36:18] Well most of the time they do both. Okay. Thank you both concurrently. In other words they train the people and have us lead the session the first time through because that accelerates it makes it go faster because you get pressures on the CEO and you get pressures on divisions for innovation pipeline and I respect that and I have no troubles with that the first time through will lead it second time through they’ll believe it’s getting the third time through. You know they start to take over leadership and that’s a pretty common method. But there are also times when I’ve got an emergency as a business leader I got to have something and I need it fast and I don’t have time for my people to learn and then so call it a proof of concept that the method. Because by the way you’re reconvening it’s nothing different than innovation engineering led by people who’ve got a lot of experience in it. I mean there’s no other magic Wiffle dust. You know it is the same thing. We just have people that got a lot of experience she got old farts like me helping with ideas and you know people have seen a lot done a lot you know and they’ve got confidence. But if the methods are exactly the same. And so you know it depends on your business situation and you really have to be respectful for the situation as it is not try to say well that’s fine but you really need to do this. No no. Play the hand you’ve been dealt. Get over it. That’s what engineers do we deal with what we’ve got. We don’t talk theory we get going.

Tripp: [00:37:37] Ok. All right. Well this has been as you said he was going to be a very in-depth discussion about some of the things that you can do as far as innovation goes. Any final comments you make about today’s episode.

Doug: [00:37:54] No I can tell you that I liked writing the the blog post on this and I like talking because I think what the world needs is more depth. So we need more depth. We need depth.

Doug: [00:38:13] And so I think I think this is going to be a wonderful you know innovation for us with the Driving Eureka! as we seek to teach the innovation and sharing system for enabling innovation by everyone everywhere every day. How do we get everybody engaged. And that’s not just a slogan. It is the truth. It is the mission is our purpose is what gets us up in the morning it’s what it’s what reason why I’m doing this and not just drinking whisk(e)y on my sailboat although that’s a fun thing to do to it. It is it is the driving dimension and thinking deeper is what we’re gonna do. And I like it. I think there’s going to be fun. It’s going to challenge me to think harder. The popcorn things define. But it’s just skipping over the surface. When you have to think deeper about it. I don’t know it’s just more engaging to me.

Tripp: [00:39:04] Ok. All right. Well those are great closing comments and I think that’s a great lead in for future episodes too.

Doug: [00:39:10] Thank you Tripp.

Tripp: [00:39:11] Thanks.

Tripp: [00:39:15] Thank you for listening to the Driving Eureka! podcast. This podcast is part of the innovation Engineering Institute. Innovation engineering is a new field of academic study and leadership science. Its mission is to change the world by enabling innovation by everyone everywhere every day. resulting in increased speed and decreased risk. To learn more about on campus off campus live and online courses visit. Innovation engineering. Dot org.

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