Notes
[00:00:34]
Overview Of the 6th Driving Eureka! Podcast
[00:01:21]
Featured Article: Anthony Bourdain Taught Me to Think for Myself
[00:03:36]
How to Follow Anthony Bourdain
[00:04:34]
The Story of the Forest
[00:12:43]
Lesson from Anthony Bourdain Adventure
[00:15:10]
Bill Conway , Nashua Corporation and W. Edwards Deming
[00:19:10]
The Closing on Driving Eureka!
[00:22:57]
Are Baby Boomers Checking Out?
[00:27:29]
Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy
[00:28:17]
The Interaction of the Parts
[00:34:41]
The Crazy Cocktail Recipe – The Peace Treaty
[00:38:41]
The Peace Treaty – Step 1
[00:38:48]
Step 2
[00:38:52]
Step 3
[00:38:56]
Step 4
[00:39:04]
Step 5
[00:39:24]
Step 6
Transcript
Tripp: [00:00:02] Welcome to the Driving Eureka! podcasts where we share ideas and advice for helping you find filter and fast track big ideas.
Tripp: [00:00:14] Hi I’m Tripp Babbitt advisor to global organizations on the Deming philosophy and host of the Deming Institute podcast.
Doug: [00:00:23] And I’m Doug Hall inventor speaker teacher and whiskey maker. I’m also the founder of the Eureka ranch and author of the driving Eureka book
Tripp: [00:00:34] This is episode six of the driving Eureka podcast that corresponds with Doug’s November 21st newsletter which you can sign up for the newsletter Doug’s newsletter at Doug Hall dot com forward slash newsletters. This week our feature story is titled Anthony Bourdain taught me to think for myself in Singapore. The driving Eureka book segment covers a conversation with Bill Conway and in the third segment Doug and I talk about the interaction of the parts in making whiskey and the craft cocktail recipe The Peace Treaty.
Tripp: [00:01:21] Doug It looks like you went as you do your travels you go and eat a lot of interesting places. Looking at that newsletter I don’t even know what that food here you have to explain what the picture as we’ll put that in. And with the notes too if they don’t have their newsletter handy but you’ve got two huge plates of food and yet in this particular section type out Anthony Bourdain taught me to think for myself in Singapore. Do tell.
Doug: [00:01:53] Well OK so I’m an Anthony Bourdain fan. He’s obviously the author of Kitchen Confidential Show big hit kind of eclectic guy exposed a lot of things going on in kitchens and then sadly took his own life back this past summer.
Tripp: [00:02:14] Doug did you know him personally.
Doug: [00:02:16] No I didn’t. OK.
Doug: [00:02:17] I know a number of people who did do a number of people did. And in fact it’s interesting. He died on a Friday on that Mundy.
Doug: [00:02:28] I was speaking to 300 chefs which was a bit of a challenge. I mean because he was a major hero to these folks. And and so a lot of conversation and a lot of them knew him personally and so we had a lot of conversations.
Doug: [00:02:45] So I really it just I loved you know his his take on the world his sense of authenticity his genuine ness. And and so we’re going to Singapore where I’d seen the Singapore episode he’d done in a couple of nights for a different series that he’d done and I watched the show and as it turned over the Internet there’s somebody that’s written down the places he went to in the food he eat48. And the rest of this stuff. And so I had found a couple of them in Singapore and I thought I’d be neat I’ll go where Anthony Bourdain went that would be cool.
Doug: [00:03:19] And so on my way to Singapore I’m you know I’m on the iPad flipping around looking at different things and one of the airports I think I stopped in Paris on the way over something and and I read this article what would Bourdain do how to honor his legacy.
Doug: [00:03:36] And it said instead of following in his exact foot steps find your own path a new table to set out in a town or country you haven’t yet explored. And this made a bunch of sense to me you know why cloning my cloning I mean following was not the spirit of what led me to him you know. And you know what I embrace was his ability to be in the moment and connecting with real people and stuff. So the first night we got there the team from the ranch was there. They said so we’re going where everybody out. No we’re not going to that change.
Doug: [00:04:11] And so we went down the street we found this eclectic restaurant that you know had local foods a little bit off the beaten path eccentric kind of place.
Doug: [00:04:22] They had spirits that were like they said homemade they were homemade. I wouldn’t say they were great but it was a new experience. OK. And and we just had some cool food and it was fun.
Doug: [00:04:34] And then the next day a David Lafkas gets to the ranch who who works here who went to the National Museum Singapore and it tells the story of Singapore which is a fascinating story actually costing sorry the city state that exists there and they have a thing called the story of the forest which is this amazing three story digital projection of flowers coming down around all sides and you walk out in the middle of it on this walkway and then you get down to the bottom and they have like beanbags and you can lay down and just see these flowers come around it’s really a cool experience.
Doug: [00:05:12] And as I’m sitting there thinking about it and I was thinking about Anthony Bourdain and I said you know I don’t think he would care what a blogger thought.
Doug: [00:05:23] So you can see where I’m going. Oh yeah. Like what. What do you listen to some cheese ball blogger. Does it make sense. So so now I’m really messed up. And so so then I go outside and I see David and I said Would you be interested in going.
Doug: [00:05:45] He says yes sure I’m good with it. You know he’s like I’m trying to tell him this story is like you know whatever.
Doug: [00:05:51] And we go outside and it starts to rain and it’s like we weren’t really set for rain we didn’t think was going to rain. And it’s raining and I go David I got it kind of on the phone but you know I’ve got like two places it’s not real clear. I’m not really sure if it’s even going to be there. He says How far is it. I said I know. Somewhere between half hour to an hour.
Doug: [00:06:13] Oh yeah let’s go. And he’s like game for this. I’m like oh yes let’s go. So we go in the rain we get drenched. I mean absolutely drenched.
Tripp: [00:06:20] So you’re walking to this place. Yeah walking folks.
Doug: [00:06:25] And we get to this and then we get to the neighborhood. OK. Now let me just say Singapore is in one study it said it was the most expensive city in the world. Well let me tell you the neighborhood we were in.
Doug: [00:06:38] Now after walking 45 minutes from the center to what’s not the most if you were out there it was a bit rustic. It was where the working people are.
Doug: [00:06:50] Ok. It was definitely in a working place and the Singapore story is a lot of diversity melting pot of cultures. That’s a lot of its successes because of that. And so we get to the kind of neighborhood. But you know how the G.P.S. is it’s kind of the kind.
Doug: [00:07:08] So going up and down blocks looking for it.
Doug: [00:07:12] And David keeps asking for the name. I thought wow you know I didn’t really even say it. And finally we take the picture for you know we look it up on the phone and we’re holding the picture OK. But down the street and finally sees it across the street. So we it well well this is not a place where tourists are coming. I can tell you this you know this is classic Anthony Bourdain now to be fair. He had they call him the fixers. They had people in town that would find him the place to go to. So it’s. Not like he went wandering. It’s.
Tripp: [00:07:40] Not like you anyway will not have it.
Doug: [00:07:43] So I’m figuring I’m using his local knowledge to get there. And so we get in the place and we go up to the counter. It’s a place There’s no menu and there’s just a bunch of food on the counter and yet you have to kind of order at.
Doug: [00:07:56] And I can’t even I You don’t even have any idea what you’re doing. You know David I know what you do now. I know. And so I held up the phone and lady behind the counter. So she came around and she looked at it and I pointed to the names of the two things that he did and she said Oh yeah I got That’s right. And so she puts it together.
Doug: [00:08:13] Now remember it’s the most expensive city most expensive city in the world. I go over to pay and the cost for two meals for the two of us and two soft drinks. OK. I mean I had just paid like 15 dollars for a soft drink. OK. Forty five minutes from here down in town and it actually was actually it was more than that because the town would have been. Let’s see where we are at the Museum the Museum mystery man who was probably an hour and 15 minute walk from from from downtown and it was seven dollars.
Doug: [00:08:55] So the most expensive city in the world and we pay seven dollars for two soft drinks and two meals.
Doug: [00:09:01] OK so you can see it. It’s kind of for the working people. And as we’re sitting there you know we’re talking about the blankets is the place. And he’d did this wonderful interview on it. And you just look it up and you can find it. And I came to understand at the moment that the heart of his message was not do weird stuff but be true to yourself live in this moment literally live in this moment. Think for yourself for damn sake you know do what you want to do. If you want to follow Anthony Bourdain to go to that place. Go to it. If you don’t want to. Don’t do it. Don’t worry about what other people are thinking. And you know it’s I thought about it. It’s the same thing with books.
Doug: [00:09:44] When I write books for my soul I write books that are what I really care about and the writing is as much fun because I’m learning as I’m doing it. Then readers find the same thing.
Doug: [00:09:56] And this book is one of those Driving Eureka! is one of those books which why I’m doing this because it is truly heart and soul. I love this book and I still love the book. There’s been other books that come out when you get it in print.
Doug: [00:10:06] You look at it you go oh wow I got that. Do you have a look. I got this book for marketing.
Doug: [00:10:15] It’s got 2000 academic articles. It’s really frickin boring and it’s not worth reading. But unless you’re really geeky you know it was a challenge to do it but there was not a lot of love shall we say. His books got love in it. And and when you do that it’s great. When I try to write I try to impress other people when I wrote Meaningingful Marketing and I did people that don’t matter.
Doug: [00:10:39] It was great in the everyday folks found it got that interesting. Now it’s helped but that’s the key. You got to commit yourself to respecting it inside all of us as a little voice a little voice that tells us what we should do and must do. We’ve got to respect that inner voice live in the here and now be who you are.
Doug: [00:11:01] Don’t worry about what other people think. So that’s my foolish story of following Anthony Bourdain not following Anthony Bourdain following Anthony Bourdain and then saying how would Anthony Bourdain just be you right now and live it just live it.
Tripp: [00:11:16] Now can I go for some food then because I’m still looking at these two bowls of food.
Doug: [00:11:24] I cannot tell ya. I don’t know. There’s noodles there’s egg in it. This chili paste it. There’s some other unidentifiable things. They both tasted really good.
Doug: [00:11:39] I didn’t get sick.
Tripp: [00:11:42] Those are all bonuses when you travel overseas.
Doug: [00:11:45] Yeah you get it!
Tripp: [00:11:46] You get great food in Vietnam and then you know it sometimes it can be a little hard on our prissy digestive system.
Doug: [00:11:54] So I get it all a victory but it was. It’s about living and you know and it’s interesting Tripp.
Doug: [00:12:01] They just did the last episode of Anthony Bourdain and he is the very last episode and he was in East Side of Laurie’s side of New York and talking about the grunge movement and Blondie and all all different things that happened back that way back then. And he talked to people about the great times in the 70s and 80s.
Doug: [00:12:22] And over and over again they said no no there wasn’t a great time. It was just a time the greatest time is right now at this moment. And I thought because I had already written this piece and I thought that is it. That is it live this moment.
Doug: [00:12:43] Do something that matters right now to worry about yesterday. Don’t worry about tomorrow. Worry about today. Do something that matters today. That is the message.
Doug: [00:12:53] And I say truth. Say what you feel.
Doug: [00:13:00] Do what you mean. I mean that’s. I mean when I say meaningfully unique I mean meaningful to you. It doesn’t have to be meaningful to anybody else I don’t care.
Doug: [00:13:09] You gotta be meaningful to enough people to have a business but that’s it. You know if you want to be a Gazeta then you’ve got to be meaningful to a lot of people you know. But you don’t have to be a good senior do something. That’s what the craft movement’s about the reason craft beers restaurants garments whiskeys whatever it is exists is because the people care they care. And what we’ve got to do is in our social systems whether it be our educational institutions whether it be in our governments or in our corporations. We’ve got to get more caring into it. Do we care about doing the right thing and that’s what this revolution is about. This whole movement that we describe and in our courses.
Doug: [00:13:51] And I write in the book Driving Eureka is about doing stuff that matters.
Tripp: [00:13:58] Very cool. Very good. I’ve really liked the reading this this particular section but it was a journey in itself. Whether that’s not a particularly long segment but it was meaningful had a lot of good pieces I recommend people take the time to read that section I am curious about this story of the forest though I’m gonna have to look that up on the Internet. We’ll put a link to that out there.
Doug: [00:14:24] This got to be video of it but it wouldn’t do it. It’s a three dimensional thing but it really is it really is cool. Total surprise. History Museum. Total surprise. Didn’t see it coming. Didn’t see it coming at all
Tripp: [00:14:45] It’s time now for the Driving Eureka!. Book excerpt with legendary inventor Doug Hall.
[00:14:59] So segment two Driving Eureka!
Tripp: [00:15:03] Is the Excerpt from the book on why I have such a hard time saying that word excerpt doesn’t roll off the tongue very easily.
Tripp: [00:15:10] But in this section you talk about Bill Conway and that was my original really foray when I very first started reading about W. Edwards Deming was Bill Conway a Nashua corporation and their story and having to compete against that you know Japanese firms that were buying the same raw materials from Maine for their trees for their paper as Nashua Corp. was for for their paper but they were over in Japan. Same source of paper. They were cheaper meaning the Japanese competitor.
Doug: [00:15:52] It was. And the quality was better.
Tripp: [00:15:53] I remember that was kind of the impetus for him to reach out and led him to start questioning and how he ran into the name of W. Edwards Deming. So both before the 1980 white paper for for anybody in the Deming community listening of If Japan Can Why Can’t We? That made Dr. Deming famous in the U.S. in 1980 did national corporation was already using the Dr. Deming to help them be more competitive and more effective was featured in the White Paper itself. So maybe just a quick summary because I know we’ve covered it off before in the introduction in the episode 0 that we have where your father worked for Nashua corporation but this kind of a brief summary of that story I think might be fitting here.
Doug: [00:16:48] I was born in Maine and then we moved to Nashua New Hampshire southern New Hampshire just outside of Boston and my dad worked in the paper industry all his life and he worked for Nash corporation as director of central engineering and he was there when Dr. Deming came in and he’s the one who taught me about Deming and taught me about this amazing guy I never had the opportunity to meet him which is sad because he was in Cincinnati for and things he was in Nashua I was in the same city as a multiple times and I never did get CMI a blizzard watch now hours of course the Deming library of videos but and talked to a lot of people who did but I never never had the honor of being with them but I’ve been with his grandson and daughter both daughters actually. I’ve spent some time with.
Doug: [00:17:32] Bill was quite a guy. I mean this was a guy that was the first Fortune 500 company to embrace Deming approach to quality as he said. I had an opportunity sit down with him about a year before he died and had a wonderful wonderful time. He was so gracious and firm Oh my God was he firm really was was clear on it and about what had to be done and the problems that existed. I said well people don’t get it. He says well let a idiots don’t get it.
Doug: [00:18:03] I said What do you do if they don’t buy he sits down with them. I mean a guy with like no tolerance really stern.
Tripp: [00:18:12] Sounds like an East Coast guy.
Doug: [00:18:15] This is the guy that that he had your father the big the big three automakers were in the boardroom and he came out and my dad was outside and he came out and talked to my dad and he says they don’t get it. They think the problems the employees they don’t understand it’s them it’s the systems and only they can change the systems. I mean it pretty brutal stuff pretty brutal stuff but visionary at the same time. I mean I sat and talked to him and he was really clear with me. Tim Hogan a very good friend of mine from high school and his wife Sue knew Bill Conway’s daughter real well. And he set up the connection for us. And it was just glorious. As we talked about stuff and he asked me questions and gave me ideas and and I’ve written about this in the book I have a big section on it from him. But I thought I would this week last week I did the opening of the book.
Doug: [00:19:10] This week we’ll do the end of the book and then maybe you’ll find something in the middle that you want to read. So this is I closed the book I’m going to paraphrase I’m going to jump a couple of sections but just give you a basic sort. So closing thoughts.
Doug: [00:19:21] Well my time with Bill Conway was over I asked him what advice what advice he had for me as I embarked on the journey to create an innovation revolution he put his hand on my shoulder looked me straight in the eye and said You have to do it.
Doug: [00:19:39] America needs it now the country is failing because bosses are not doing the right things. Do it now do it faster.
Doug: [00:19:50] Have no tolerance for excuses I mean just reading those lines gives me a chill the chill that I felt when he did it to me.
Tripp: [00:20:00] How old are you at this point Doug.
Doug: [00:20:03] Is this how recently though it’s maybe four or five years ago.
Doug: [00:20:07] Oh mid 50s mid 50s. Interestingly Deming was 50 when he first went to Japan. Bill Conway was 50 when he met Dr. Deming and I was 50 when I started in innovation engineering so which is kind of ironic and I go on to write at the end I said Bill said America. But frankly my friends in Canada Mexico Europe Asia South America everybody is feeling same urgency and now is the time to reinvent our community our company our country and the world the process starts with you taking personal responsibility. You won’t do it right. You won’t be perfect but you’ll get smarter and smarter with each cycle learning and that’s how you can and will change your world. Now when he feels I’m discouraged my mentor Walter Werner often quotes with Dr Nelson taught him years ago Dr Nelson was one to Dr Deming. Chief statisticians he would say to Walter when he didn’t feel like he was ready he would say you are the best we have no go do it friends so too is it the time for you to just do it. And by doing I mean applying what you’ve learned any more importantly making a personal commitment to never ending continuous learning. So what are you waiting for. Get up get out. Get going. As Ben Franklin said over 200 years ago up slugger and waste not life in the grave.
Doug: [00:21:44] We’ll be sleeping enough up slugger waste not life in the grave. We’ll be sleeping enough.
Tripp: [00:21:52] Prophetic words a lot of history and they’re associated with some names that I hadn’t. Well one name I hadn’t heard in a while which was Dr. Lloyd Nelson and I’d forgotten that he had worked at Nashua Corporation.
Tripp: [00:22:06] But the message there is very very profound. Was this one a year. I assume that you must have developed a relationship with Bill Conway when he was talking to you at that point you had known him for a few years.
Doug: [00:22:22] Yeah. It is amazing. I am been so blessed so blessed to get to spend time with Barry Bruno’s Walter Werner Bill Conway Kevin Cahill Dr. Deming’s grandson. The folks from the Deming Institute meeting with you and your approach to this it is amazing folks if you just go and say I need help. There’s so many people. And if there’s anything that gets me really mad really mad at baby boomers I’m being a baby boomer.
Doug: [00:22:57] One of the things that gets me really mad at baby boomers is so many of them frickin check out and they go I’m too old to keep doing this. Get over yourself. OK. There was a time when older people would mentor and help younger people and a whole lot of my generation I think you’re being pretty selfish when they’re not willing to give back what was given to them and to spend that time teaching them and I I try to do what I still am. I’m not good at it because I’m so driven forward trying to change the world but to stop and help those people which is part of the reason trip that I’m doing this podcast is because it gives us a way to reach people that you can’t reach otherwise. I mean not everything we’re saying is of any significance of value but if you get one little thing this Internet allows us to multiply. This stuff’s amazingly amazingly you know it’s a great medium no doubt.
Tripp: [00:23:53] And you know it’s interesting. I don’t know. You know are the Baby Boomers the selfish generation. I don’t know. It seems like it’s like you. Like you said so many who are and maybe it’s because of all the commercials who knows that you’ve saved enough for retirement.
Tripp: [00:24:11] Now get and go and retire move off to do something else and yet we’re living a lot longer now. So do you know what just makes sense to me that you’d want to do something more with that other than sit on a beach. I guess I don’t quite got that mentality.
Doug: [00:24:31] But to be fair the world has changed. This digital world. It can be hard to get to see you feel like your fish out of water. I got all of that and used to be master of your destiny. Now you’re not and that’s changed more than has changed for any generation. But I can tell you that if you ask for help whether it’s Gen Xers millennials or whatever the next one’s called they’re generally open to doing it.
Doug: [00:24:57] And to those that are younger go find a old fart like like me and go ask people ask them for help. Ask them for their thoughts you don’t have to do it don’t get in a fight but ask their perspective how they would approach it. I think you’ll be amazed. I think you’ll be amazed at how much wisdom there is. And when we start to change the culture of an organization sometimes the old people say to me. Well I guess it’s not for me anymore. I guess I’m out of here.
Doug: [00:25:25] I’m like No we need that wisdom you’ve got you have insights ideas your brain is full of stimulus we need your brain don’t check out but let’s learn to use it in a more effective way and make it fun again. Let’s make it fun again. And sometimes you win sometimes you know but but they we need all of it. We need the young people we need the old people we need the black brown in purple yellow whatever people we need everyone. We need everyone.
Tripp: [00:25:58] You know it’s interesting that you say that because you know when you present presented and a previous episode about you know the power of diversity in organizational cultures helping to get you more robust ideas out you mostly have a tendency to think in terms of nationality you know as opposed to age you know. But it’s the same thing. I mean there’s diversity of having lived for 50 60 years as there is diversity and somebody who’s 20 versus 30.
Tripp: [00:26:37] And it’s not just nationality. I think some of the and I think you’re right. I think some of the organizations are probably missing that that piece too. They’ve got a lot of younger cultures because of those reasons that you just said that you know they’re not as up to date on some of the Internet’s things that are out there. So but they do have perspective and they have a very different one than the generations that are kind of moving things right now which would be more millennials than the one that you didn’t mentioned is what was referenced in futurist. His name escapes me at the moment but “digital natives” which because they’ve always had computers you know their entire life They’re digital natives.
Tripp: [00:27:29] This is the Brain Brew Whisky Academy podcasts where we’re going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whiskey distillery business Eureka Ranch! team led by Doug Hall creating a craft Whiskey Company like has never been done before.
Tripp: [00:27:52] Ok. This is the Brain Brew Whiskey Academy and we didn’t leave you with a cliffhanger last time but I did have a bit of a discussion with Doug. So is privy to information that you as a listener weren’t which Doug wants to talk about the inner action of the parts. Now he didn’t tell me what that meant with regards to making whiskey but I think he’s going to share that with us now.
Doug: [00:28:17] Yeah. So here’s how you have to think about it. Okay. And whiskey is really a great great example of this. And whether it’s any idea you’re working with a product or service you’re not creating art. We’re creating a product or something. OK. So I’m not going to do art. What I’m talking about is doing new product a new service or new system or whatever it might be. And the way you have to think about it is as a system. And Dr. Deming defined a system is independent parts that work together to accomplish a comedy independent parts that work together to accomplish a comedy. And so basically the parts come together to create something bigger than themselves individually with regards to a product. This means product package positioning name production pricing all of these elements have to work together and you have to think about it as a whole. OK. So let me give you some examples. We may be working on a whiskey and we may be able to make this whiskey an amazing whiskey but it doesn’t have. There isn’t a good marketing story with it. I mean they just you know it’s just we’ve just done a good job and it doesn’t have something edgy something to work with here. I turned around and I used Japanese wood or I use 200 year wood or or Merola wood from South Africa or I find to make a bottle that’s really unique that can give me some element.
Doug: [00:29:59] But the minute I do that that creates a chain reaction of other aspects it’s like it’s like playing the you know the carnival game Whack a Mole with the moles keep bringing the heads up and you have to keep hitting him down. That’s what innovation is about. It’s juggling all of those pieces to make them all fit together and you start the effort on an idea and you might start from a technology might start from a package you might start from a concept might start from a vision of what you want to do and then you have to keep juggling all those parts to make them all fit together. And and that’s where the fun is. That’s where the fun is is how do you make this whole thing work. Sometimes you put the whole thing together and you go. The math doesn’t work. We can’t afford to do this know and it just doesn’t work. It’s just the math doesn’t work it’s too expensive and the media started throwing you off Start all over again. So we have a tendency to be silo mentality because in universities we have marketing people and engineering people and we’re in our silos on campuses.
Doug: [00:30:57] You’ve got to get over that and you have to be everybody is in it for the same comedy and you have to trade off these aspects and think about it as a whole. All of interactive part the idea can start from marketing. It can start from product the interest. Yes I talked to Pete craft who still is and I said Well I’m a marketing driven guy. I do pasting with them and you can tell they don’t get the products at all. They don’t stand them. They’re just into selling and that’s what I call mindless marketing and all a whole cheap but eventually the world will catch up with it. Then I talk to other people they’re all into the product. There’s no marketing with it. Well it might be nice usage of that but nobody is going to know it. No math is going to work. We need to have a healthy tension of these pieces working together with the interaction of the parts is greater than the sum of the parts it creates something amazing one plus one equals seventeen That’s what we’re looking for and that’s the magic of it is making all of these pieces come together to get to a whole.
Tripp: [00:31:59] Yeah. That’s good and I think I think you think of the analogy that they use with regards to whiskey. You know and I know you know Deming used the piano you know people would try and copy parts and do things of that sort and try and put it together and of course the piano wouldn’t play and I imagine that’s kind of the same process of oh we got all these great ingredients that have all the best ingredients in the world but if it’s not the right combination of ingredients that you’re putting into your whiskey it’s going to taste awful. And I think that in the nature of your process of you know learning through PDSA and through your cycles then allows you to get to the point to perfect that and and get all of those individual pieces to sing together as opposed to the one prima donna that that’s trying to sing a solo.
Tripp: [00:32:52] And you’re right. I mean no matter what business they are and that that that’s always the challenge just trying to get all of the pieces together. Talking about bureaucracy is as the same view of that. I mean because there’s so many different pieces. And if they’re not constructed right then you’re not going to provide a good product or service an association with that.
Doug: [00:33:16] Mm hmm. Oh yeah. And you could see it if you take people and they hand it off from department to department you have no chance of getting it.
Doug: [00:33:23] You have to truly work together. You have to truly work together to make this happen. And so you know when you’re small it’s easier. The challenge is as you get bigger and bigger and you start to lose some of that but that spirit of keeping it together which is why you know Apple famously has a very small design team that does all of these amazing things. The core team the same thing here with Bremer. We’ve got a very small team of us to do the creation and we’ve got respect from one another and we’ll push and poke and you know when I’m making a whiskey I can make it so many different ways I can use more wood and lower pressure less wood higher pressure I can do more cycles I can ramp them faster slower I’ve got twenty two variables I can play with to try to make that per product do the thing I wanted to do so that it speaks to the consumer creating the experience and I’m trying to create. It’s amazing what you can do and but you have to be willing to let go of where you are you’ve got to be willing to let go of. Well you know what I’ve got it. Okay. Yeah we made it and it’s great but now we’re going to make it better and that’s what we’re looking to do that that.
Tripp: [00:34:33] Well now I know what the interaction of parts meant that you talked about before this particular section. Okay well I knew that.
Tripp: [00:34:41] Okay what’s what’s moved to your craft cocktail recipe. The Peace Treaty its trademark picture cocktail whose trademark is that yeah.
Doug: [00:34:53] This is a trademark. You know there’s cocktails that have trademarks on them. I will put it out to the industry a lot. But the peace treaty remember I just said they got all work together. Oh yeah. It has to be a peace treaty. You have to work together. We sign a treaty for the common good.
Doug: [00:35:12] You get it.
Tripp: [00:35:14] No I didn’t. You got me on that one.
Doug: [00:35:18] It’s also a Peace Treaty because we move this up. Normally when this first release normally you release on Thursdays and we released it on Wednesday before U.S. Thanksgiving because with the political debate that goes on I figured there needed to be some peace treaty at the Thanksgiving table here given the state of U.S. You didn’t see that one government did you know.
Tripp: [00:35:44] You got you you got me at the U.S. Thanksgiving because I always forget there’s a Canadian one. So okay. But you’re right. All right. You’re Canadian. I forgive you.
Doug: [00:35:55] I’m just as much 50 percent Canadian as my mom would say.
Tripp: [00:35:59] So so this cocktail is a craft cocktail and I don’t even know where it originally began but it’s gone through a lot of evolutions and and my drinking buddies I guess you shouldn’t say drinking buddies. My good friends Tim and Sue Hogan were on Prince Edward Island this summer for a week and we just had a glorious time kayaking and sailing and eating seafood and stuff. And we did a lot of fun with cocktails and we stumbled into this cocktail that we’ve kept working on. And it’s it’s the first cocktail that we’ve done that is I’m calling it’s a pitcher cocktail. It’s the kind of cocktail you make a picture of you know you see in the movies they make a pitcher of martinis which I can’t even imagine. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know it’s a different time go.
Tripp: [00:36:46] All the garnish and all the stuff.
Doug: [00:36:50] A whole pitcher of martinis you know. I mean that’s basically just gin a little bit of booze.
Doug: [00:36:57] You know it’s a it’s like pure alcohol. And so but this is a pitcher drink and it’s it’s a great example of independent parts coming together to create something magical. So this is exactly on line with what we just talked about. That was the purpose. And in this case orange and cranberry balance out the earthiness of maple syrup and whiskey so you’ve got this kind of cool tension between the earthy notes and the fruit notes that is just it’s magical. And in fact I’m gonna give it to you in two recipes. One is the pitcher and one is the one great. And in the pitcher recipe I went to the one and a half ounce per serving and you can probably cut it to one ounce per serving for the alcohol because they’re going to drink so many things you want to get it down unless you got a stupid brother in law that you just need to get him to go to bread because he’s gonna drink too much in this case just haven’t given to him or whatever.
Tripp: [00:37:56] That’s me.
Doug: [00:37:57] So I got my father in law. Oh wonderful. So in fact when I did a radio show he did a wonderful section we’re gonna play some of those some of that was a Brain Brew radio show that ran and marketed some wonderful only and main segments it was just wonderful.
Doug: [00:38:16] So anyway so it’s called peace treaty and it is designed to be one for everybody to come together. It is a drink that you can make and everybody can see. People say I’m not into whiskey I’m not into this I meant to be. No no I wanted to make a drink. And Tim Sue Debbie and I we wanted to drink that everybody would say I love that. That’s great. And we could share it together. The communal kind of thing that we could do.
Doug: [00:38:41] And so to make a pitcher you know what you’re gonna do is half cup of maple syrup.
Doug: [00:38:48] Two thirds of a cup of orange juice.
Doug: [00:38:50] Again the recipes in the Show Notes it’s.
Doug: [00:38:52] Two thirds of a cup of cranberry juice.
Doug: [00:38:56] A cup of Relativity whiskey or other craft bourbon or rye and Relativity is our product it’s up in the Boston area. And that’s gonna give you about one and a half ounces per serving.
Doug: [00:39:04] And then add some 7-up to taste and don’t use sprite you 7-Up I’ve done tests it works better in these cocktails and then start gently and Tripp how many times do we stir it.
Tripp: [00:39:15] Thirteen times. And that’s right. Yeah lucky 13 not twelve not or pirates a dozen as some people would call it.
[00:39:24] Yeah. And then add some ice to the pitcher or poured over glasses with ice and garnish with lemon and orange slices sort of make you a nice pitcher and you’ll have some fun you got to start a little bit.
Doug: [00:39:35] It it really. There’s something magical that happens with the maple syrup you can use the lighter syrup or the darker serve a bit depending upon how robust you want it but there’s just a wonderful tension that goes on here between the orange and cranberry and the Maple which it does give you a holiday dimension to it. And so it’s a it’s a real festive drink. I can tell you at the at the ranch holiday party we have it. These will be making pictures. So these if you want to make one drink just take a large eyeball all or large rocks glass. Yes be pretty good size three quarters of an ounce of maple syrup one ounce of OJ one ounce of cranberry juice and then announced a half or two ounces of whiskey with a splash of seven up again garnish at the same.
Doug: [00:40:25] So just a fun drink. And I really would push for you to do a picture because we had some friends over on Saturday night and I made a drink and then I made another drink and then I know how make a picture. And so we only make pitchers of this stuff now because it is one of those. There is a certain set of drinks. The Hemingway Daquiri is one of them the Peace Treaty is one of those there’s certain drinks that are just fun for people to have.
Doug: [00:40:58] And in fact this went out and I immediately got a note from somebody I’m getting a couple of notes as it’s amazing how this thing the feedback loop that you get is just amazing these days.
Doug: [00:41:10] And hold on one second they said these guys wrote Doug the peace treaty may be your greatest inspiration yet Doug. The peace treaty may be your greatest inspiration yet just in time for the holidays. So, Tripp I’ve got all this research. I’ve gotten honorary doctorates for Attorney innovation into a science. I’ve read books I’ve read plays. I’ve got all these things and I’m going to be well known because he makes a cool guy.
Tripp: [00:41:43] You’re only redeeming quality huh. I got it. Your audience can always bring you up or down isn’t that. Isn’t that the truth. So so Doug. This this drink is it. It sounds very sweet.
Doug: [00:41:59] No it’s not too bad. It isn’t. OK. Maple syrup Isn’t it and you’ve got a whole lot of that orange and cranberry in there but it’s not it’s really balanced. It’s really really balance. You know cranberry juice is very tart. So you know it’s not it’s not. I mean if you want if it’s too much it you know you could take the Serb down and you could add some more lemon juice to it I guess. But it’s pretty balanced.
Doug: [00:42:25] It’s pretty balanced OK. Very good.
Tripp: [00:42:28] I’ll have to give that one a shot I’m missing a few things there and I’m at this late date. I’m not going to the grocery store stay away from that place. OK. Well I. This is an interesting. I like the way you were weaving in the interaction of the parts with the drink that you pick. You did. You did. You did throw the curve ball at me on that one. So very good. All right.
Doug: [00:42:54] Any cliffhangers for our next one. Next week I’m going to talk about paired comparison tests. I’m going to get geeky because you know people say I don’t like to do math. I said well then you don’t wanna do math. OK. How about if I don’t do the math and figure out how much to pay you. Well I want you do the math on that. Do you want to make money. Get over yourself. You’ve got to do math. No math no project no innovation. That’s kind of key to this stuff and these singular most important test is the paired comparison test the paired comparison test. And I’m going to take you through just like I took you through back a while ago I took you through how to find out if you meaning fleeting. I really want to take you through was that in this episode that did that. No no with the interaction the parts. Yeah. So. So just. Yes I did in a recent episode. Right took you through how to do a single product test to see if you meaningfully unique. I’m going to walk you through how to do paired comparison tests and we’ll show you how to do that. Talk it through. And I’m also at the same time we have three paired comparison tests out tonight just tonight. And so I’ll have the results and and and some of that I have to keep secret but in general I’m going to walk you through what we learned from those three tests and how we use this because this is the nitty gritty folks. This is the stuff you need to do to make it great. You don’t. If you want to make a business and if you want to build a business you’re going to have to do some stuff because it takes a lot of work to get your whiskey registered to get your label done to get all of that stuff done.
Doug: [00:44:35] And you got to reduce your chances of failure and you do that through some testing before you make those decisions. And so I’m going to show you how to do that and to get you going.
Tripp: [00:44:45] Ok. Well I’ll give everyone the opportunity to prepare for some interesting information especially on doing paired comparison tests. Well for the audience and for you Doug I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving and I know what.
Tripp: [00:45:03] Well obviously Canada has a different date but and for the international crowd they’re probably going What the heck is Thanksgiving. OK. I thought I saw I heard I heard a sound guy there and I just want to wish him right there. Happy Thanksgiving. I know this is gonna come out after the Thanksgiving time but it’s the holiday season.
Doug: [00:45:20] Yes it is. And Tripp I’m a little concerned about this because of a post just came through on social media. We’d put out about the fact that we’re going to be doing this podcast. And oh until he got it. No he said and I’m not sure how. First I thought it was good and then I said Hmm I’m not sure. Oh and said This is relating the fact that the new podcast is coming out and he said and the world will never be quite the same. Anyway dot dot dot dot. Fill in the blank of that. I don’t know.
Tripp: [00:46:09] Well we’re changing the world. How’s that.
Doug: [00:46:12] I guess we’ll find out in a good way or bad way. Hey you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and everybody out there have a wonderful holiday season and we’ll see you next week
Tripp: [00:46:26] Because we appreciate you as a listener. We are offering for limited time for things. A one hour abridged audio of the driving Eureka book. A subscription to the driving Eureka newsletter which contains weekly advice from Doug Hall on how to find filter and fast track big ideas And the newsletter has other offers that are not made public. The driving Eureka prescription for success you answer questions and will help you assess your ability to find filter and fast track big ideas And you get advice on how to grow your ability to innovate and the last item. Access to a Doug Hall interview with a radio legend. To get these offers. Go to w w w Dot Doug Hall dot com forward slash podcast.
[00:47:27] And don’t forget to subscribe To the Driving Eureka! podcast on iTunes.
[00:00:34]
Overview Of the 6th Driving Eureka! Podcast
[00:01:21]
Featured Article: Anthony Bourdain Taught Me to Think for Myself
[00:03:36]
How to Follow Anthony Bourdain
[00:04:34]
The Story of the Forest
[00:12:43]
Lesson from Anthony Bourdain Adventure
[00:15:10]
Bill Conway , Nashua Corporation and W. Edwards Deming
[00:19:10]
The Closing on Driving Eureka!
[00:22:57]
Are Baby Boomers Checking Out?
[00:27:29]
Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy
[00:28:17]
The Interaction of the Parts
[00:34:41]
The Crazy Cocktail Recipe – The Peace Treaty
[00:38:41]
The Peace Treaty – Step 1
[00:38:48]
Step 2
[00:38:52]
Step 3
[00:38:56]
Step 4
[00:39:04]
Step 5
[00:39:24]
Step 6
Transcript
Tripp: [00:00:02] Welcome to the Driving Eureka! podcasts where we share ideas and advice for helping you find filter and fast track big ideas.
Tripp: [00:00:14] Hi I’m Tripp Babbitt advisor to global organizations on the Deming philosophy and host of the Deming Institute podcast.
Doug: [00:00:23] And I’m Doug Hall inventor speaker teacher and whiskey maker. I’m also the founder of the Eureka ranch and author of the driving Eureka book
Tripp: [00:00:34] This is episode six of the driving Eureka podcast that corresponds with Doug’s November 21st newsletter which you can sign up for the newsletter Doug’s newsletter at Doug Hall dot com forward slash newsletters. This week our feature story is titled Anthony Bourdain taught me to think for myself in Singapore. The driving Eureka book segment covers a conversation with Bill Conway and in the third segment Doug and I talk about the interaction of the parts in making whiskey and the craft cocktail recipe The Peace Treaty.
Tripp: [00:01:21] Doug It looks like you went as you do your travels you go and eat a lot of interesting places. Looking at that newsletter I don’t even know what that food here you have to explain what the picture as we’ll put that in. And with the notes too if they don’t have their newsletter handy but you’ve got two huge plates of food and yet in this particular section type out Anthony Bourdain taught me to think for myself in Singapore. Do tell.
Doug: [00:01:53] Well OK so I’m an Anthony Bourdain fan. He’s obviously the author of Kitchen Confidential Show big hit kind of eclectic guy exposed a lot of things going on in kitchens and then sadly took his own life back this past summer.
Tripp: [00:02:14] Doug did you know him personally.
Doug: [00:02:16] No I didn’t. OK.
Doug: [00:02:17] I know a number of people who did do a number of people did. And in fact it’s interesting. He died on a Friday on that Mundy.
Doug: [00:02:28] I was speaking to 300 chefs which was a bit of a challenge. I mean because he was a major hero to these folks. And and so a lot of conversation and a lot of them knew him personally and so we had a lot of conversations.
Doug: [00:02:45] So I really it just I loved you know his his take on the world his sense of authenticity his genuine ness. And and so we’re going to Singapore where I’d seen the Singapore episode he’d done in a couple of nights for a different series that he’d done and I watched the show and as it turned over the Internet there’s somebody that’s written down the places he went to in the food he eat48. And the rest of this stuff. And so I had found a couple of them in Singapore and I thought I’d be neat I’ll go where Anthony Bourdain went that would be cool.
Doug: [00:03:19] And so on my way to Singapore I’m you know I’m on the iPad flipping around looking at different things and one of the airports I think I stopped in Paris on the way over something and and I read this article what would Bourdain do how to honor his legacy.
Doug: [00:03:36] And it said instead of following in his exact foot steps find your own path a new table to set out in a town or country you haven’t yet explored. And this made a bunch of sense to me you know why cloning my cloning I mean following was not the spirit of what led me to him you know. And you know what I embrace was his ability to be in the moment and connecting with real people and stuff. So the first night we got there the team from the ranch was there. They said so we’re going where everybody out. No we’re not going to that change.
Doug: [00:04:11] And so we went down the street we found this eclectic restaurant that you know had local foods a little bit off the beaten path eccentric kind of place.
Doug: [00:04:22] They had spirits that were like they said homemade they were homemade. I wouldn’t say they were great but it was a new experience. OK. And and we just had some cool food and it was fun.
Doug: [00:04:34] And then the next day a David Lafkas gets to the ranch who who works here who went to the National Museum Singapore and it tells the story of Singapore which is a fascinating story actually costing sorry the city state that exists there and they have a thing called the story of the forest which is this amazing three story digital projection of flowers coming down around all sides and you walk out in the middle of it on this walkway and then you get down to the bottom and they have like beanbags and you can lay down and just see these flowers come around it’s really a cool experience.
Doug: [00:05:12] And as I’m sitting there thinking about it and I was thinking about Anthony Bourdain and I said you know I don’t think he would care what a blogger thought.
Doug: [00:05:23] So you can see where I’m going. Oh yeah. Like what. What do you listen to some cheese ball blogger. Does it make sense. So so now I’m really messed up. And so so then I go outside and I see David and I said Would you be interested in going.
Doug: [00:05:45] He says yes sure I’m good with it. You know he’s like I’m trying to tell him this story is like you know whatever.
Doug: [00:05:51] And we go outside and it starts to rain and it’s like we weren’t really set for rain we didn’t think was going to rain. And it’s raining and I go David I got it kind of on the phone but you know I’ve got like two places it’s not real clear. I’m not really sure if it’s even going to be there. He says How far is it. I said I know. Somewhere between half hour to an hour.
Doug: [00:06:13] Oh yeah let’s go. And he’s like game for this. I’m like oh yes let’s go. So we go in the rain we get drenched. I mean absolutely drenched.
Tripp: [00:06:20] So you’re walking to this place. Yeah walking folks.
Doug: [00:06:25] And we get to this and then we get to the neighborhood. OK. Now let me just say Singapore is in one study it said it was the most expensive city in the world. Well let me tell you the neighborhood we were in.
Doug: [00:06:38] Now after walking 45 minutes from the center to what’s not the most if you were out there it was a bit rustic. It was where the working people are.
Doug: [00:06:50] Ok. It was definitely in a working place and the Singapore story is a lot of diversity melting pot of cultures. That’s a lot of its successes because of that. And so we get to the kind of neighborhood. But you know how the G.P.S. is it’s kind of the kind.
Doug: [00:07:08] So going up and down blocks looking for it.
Doug: [00:07:12] And David keeps asking for the name. I thought wow you know I didn’t really even say it. And finally we take the picture for you know we look it up on the phone and we’re holding the picture OK. But down the street and finally sees it across the street. So we it well well this is not a place where tourists are coming. I can tell you this you know this is classic Anthony Bourdain now to be fair. He had they call him the fixers. They had people in town that would find him the place to go to. So it’s. Not like he went wandering. It’s.
Tripp: [00:07:40] Not like you anyway will not have it.
Doug: [00:07:43] So I’m figuring I’m using his local knowledge to get there. And so we get in the place and we go up to the counter. It’s a place There’s no menu and there’s just a bunch of food on the counter and yet you have to kind of order at.
Doug: [00:07:56] And I can’t even I You don’t even have any idea what you’re doing. You know David I know what you do now. I know. And so I held up the phone and lady behind the counter. So she came around and she looked at it and I pointed to the names of the two things that he did and she said Oh yeah I got That’s right. And so she puts it together.
Doug: [00:08:13] Now remember it’s the most expensive city most expensive city in the world. I go over to pay and the cost for two meals for the two of us and two soft drinks. OK. I mean I had just paid like 15 dollars for a soft drink. OK. Forty five minutes from here down in town and it actually was actually it was more than that because the town would have been. Let’s see where we are at the Museum the Museum mystery man who was probably an hour and 15 minute walk from from from downtown and it was seven dollars.
Doug: [00:08:55] So the most expensive city in the world and we pay seven dollars for two soft drinks and two meals.
Doug: [00:09:01] OK so you can see it. It’s kind of for the working people. And as we’re sitting there you know we’re talking about the blankets is the place. And he’d did this wonderful interview on it. And you just look it up and you can find it. And I came to understand at the moment that the heart of his message was not do weird stuff but be true to yourself live in this moment literally live in this moment. Think for yourself for damn sake you know do what you want to do. If you want to follow Anthony Bourdain to go to that place. Go to it. If you don’t want to. Don’t do it. Don’t worry about what other people are thinking. And you know it’s I thought about it. It’s the same thing with books.
Doug: [00:09:44] When I write books for my soul I write books that are what I really care about and the writing is as much fun because I’m learning as I’m doing it. Then readers find the same thing.
Doug: [00:09:56] And this book is one of those Driving Eureka! is one of those books which why I’m doing this because it is truly heart and soul. I love this book and I still love the book. There’s been other books that come out when you get it in print.
Doug: [00:10:06] You look at it you go oh wow I got that. Do you have a look. I got this book for marketing.
Doug: [00:10:15] It’s got 2000 academic articles. It’s really frickin boring and it’s not worth reading. But unless you’re really geeky you know it was a challenge to do it but there was not a lot of love shall we say. His books got love in it. And and when you do that it’s great. When I try to write I try to impress other people when I wrote Meaningingful Marketing and I did people that don’t matter.
Doug: [00:10:39] It was great in the everyday folks found it got that interesting. Now it’s helped but that’s the key. You got to commit yourself to respecting it inside all of us as a little voice a little voice that tells us what we should do and must do. We’ve got to respect that inner voice live in the here and now be who you are.
Doug: [00:11:01] Don’t worry about what other people think. So that’s my foolish story of following Anthony Bourdain not following Anthony Bourdain following Anthony Bourdain and then saying how would Anthony Bourdain just be you right now and live it just live it.
Tripp: [00:11:16] Now can I go for some food then because I’m still looking at these two bowls of food.
Doug: [00:11:24] I cannot tell ya. I don’t know. There’s noodles there’s egg in it. This chili paste it. There’s some other unidentifiable things. They both tasted really good.
Doug: [00:11:39] I didn’t get sick.
Tripp: [00:11:42] Those are all bonuses when you travel overseas.
Doug: [00:11:45] Yeah you get it!
Tripp: [00:11:46] You get great food in Vietnam and then you know it sometimes it can be a little hard on our prissy digestive system.
Doug: [00:11:54] So I get it all a victory but it was. It’s about living and you know and it’s interesting Tripp.
Doug: [00:12:01] They just did the last episode of Anthony Bourdain and he is the very last episode and he was in East Side of Laurie’s side of New York and talking about the grunge movement and Blondie and all all different things that happened back that way back then. And he talked to people about the great times in the 70s and 80s.
Doug: [00:12:22] And over and over again they said no no there wasn’t a great time. It was just a time the greatest time is right now at this moment. And I thought because I had already written this piece and I thought that is it. That is it live this moment.
Doug: [00:12:43] Do something that matters right now to worry about yesterday. Don’t worry about tomorrow. Worry about today. Do something that matters today. That is the message.
Doug: [00:12:53] And I say truth. Say what you feel.
Doug: [00:13:00] Do what you mean. I mean that’s. I mean when I say meaningfully unique I mean meaningful to you. It doesn’t have to be meaningful to anybody else I don’t care.
Doug: [00:13:09] You gotta be meaningful to enough people to have a business but that’s it. You know if you want to be a Gazeta then you’ve got to be meaningful to a lot of people you know. But you don’t have to be a good senior do something. That’s what the craft movement’s about the reason craft beers restaurants garments whiskeys whatever it is exists is because the people care they care. And what we’ve got to do is in our social systems whether it be our educational institutions whether it be in our governments or in our corporations. We’ve got to get more caring into it. Do we care about doing the right thing and that’s what this revolution is about. This whole movement that we describe and in our courses.
Doug: [00:13:51] And I write in the book Driving Eureka is about doing stuff that matters.
Tripp: [00:13:58] Very cool. Very good. I’ve really liked the reading this this particular section but it was a journey in itself. Whether that’s not a particularly long segment but it was meaningful had a lot of good pieces I recommend people take the time to read that section I am curious about this story of the forest though I’m gonna have to look that up on the Internet. We’ll put a link to that out there.
Doug: [00:14:24] This got to be video of it but it wouldn’t do it. It’s a three dimensional thing but it really is it really is cool. Total surprise. History Museum. Total surprise. Didn’t see it coming. Didn’t see it coming at all
Tripp: [00:14:45] It’s time now for the Driving Eureka!. Book excerpt with legendary inventor Doug Hall.
[00:14:59] So segment two Driving Eureka!
Tripp: [00:15:03] Is the Excerpt from the book on why I have such a hard time saying that word excerpt doesn’t roll off the tongue very easily.
Tripp: [00:15:10] But in this section you talk about Bill Conway and that was my original really foray when I very first started reading about W. Edwards Deming was Bill Conway a Nashua corporation and their story and having to compete against that you know Japanese firms that were buying the same raw materials from Maine for their trees for their paper as Nashua Corp. was for for their paper but they were over in Japan. Same source of paper. They were cheaper meaning the Japanese competitor.
Doug: [00:15:52] It was. And the quality was better.
Tripp: [00:15:53] I remember that was kind of the impetus for him to reach out and led him to start questioning and how he ran into the name of W. Edwards Deming. So both before the 1980 white paper for for anybody in the Deming community listening of If Japan Can Why Can’t We? That made Dr. Deming famous in the U.S. in 1980 did national corporation was already using the Dr. Deming to help them be more competitive and more effective was featured in the White Paper itself. So maybe just a quick summary because I know we’ve covered it off before in the introduction in the episode 0 that we have where your father worked for Nashua corporation but this kind of a brief summary of that story I think might be fitting here.
Doug: [00:16:48] I was born in Maine and then we moved to Nashua New Hampshire southern New Hampshire just outside of Boston and my dad worked in the paper industry all his life and he worked for Nash corporation as director of central engineering and he was there when Dr. Deming came in and he’s the one who taught me about Deming and taught me about this amazing guy I never had the opportunity to meet him which is sad because he was in Cincinnati for and things he was in Nashua I was in the same city as a multiple times and I never did get CMI a blizzard watch now hours of course the Deming library of videos but and talked to a lot of people who did but I never never had the honor of being with them but I’ve been with his grandson and daughter both daughters actually. I’ve spent some time with.
Doug: [00:17:32] Bill was quite a guy. I mean this was a guy that was the first Fortune 500 company to embrace Deming approach to quality as he said. I had an opportunity sit down with him about a year before he died and had a wonderful wonderful time. He was so gracious and firm Oh my God was he firm really was was clear on it and about what had to be done and the problems that existed. I said well people don’t get it. He says well let a idiots don’t get it.
Doug: [00:18:03] I said What do you do if they don’t buy he sits down with them. I mean a guy with like no tolerance really stern.
Tripp: [00:18:12] Sounds like an East Coast guy.
Doug: [00:18:15] This is the guy that that he had your father the big the big three automakers were in the boardroom and he came out and my dad was outside and he came out and talked to my dad and he says they don’t get it. They think the problems the employees they don’t understand it’s them it’s the systems and only they can change the systems. I mean it pretty brutal stuff pretty brutal stuff but visionary at the same time. I mean I sat and talked to him and he was really clear with me. Tim Hogan a very good friend of mine from high school and his wife Sue knew Bill Conway’s daughter real well. And he set up the connection for us. And it was just glorious. As we talked about stuff and he asked me questions and gave me ideas and and I’ve written about this in the book I have a big section on it from him. But I thought I would this week last week I did the opening of the book.
Doug: [00:19:10] This week we’ll do the end of the book and then maybe you’ll find something in the middle that you want to read. So this is I closed the book I’m going to paraphrase I’m going to jump a couple of sections but just give you a basic sort. So closing thoughts.
Doug: [00:19:21] Well my time with Bill Conway was over I asked him what advice what advice he had for me as I embarked on the journey to create an innovation revolution he put his hand on my shoulder looked me straight in the eye and said You have to do it.
Doug: [00:19:39] America needs it now the country is failing because bosses are not doing the right things. Do it now do it faster.
Doug: [00:19:50] Have no tolerance for excuses I mean just reading those lines gives me a chill the chill that I felt when he did it to me.
Tripp: [00:20:00] How old are you at this point Doug.
Doug: [00:20:03] Is this how recently though it’s maybe four or five years ago.
Doug: [00:20:07] Oh mid 50s mid 50s. Interestingly Deming was 50 when he first went to Japan. Bill Conway was 50 when he met Dr. Deming and I was 50 when I started in innovation engineering so which is kind of ironic and I go on to write at the end I said Bill said America. But frankly my friends in Canada Mexico Europe Asia South America everybody is feeling same urgency and now is the time to reinvent our community our company our country and the world the process starts with you taking personal responsibility. You won’t do it right. You won’t be perfect but you’ll get smarter and smarter with each cycle learning and that’s how you can and will change your world. Now when he feels I’m discouraged my mentor Walter Werner often quotes with Dr Nelson taught him years ago Dr Nelson was one to Dr Deming. Chief statisticians he would say to Walter when he didn’t feel like he was ready he would say you are the best we have no go do it friends so too is it the time for you to just do it. And by doing I mean applying what you’ve learned any more importantly making a personal commitment to never ending continuous learning. So what are you waiting for. Get up get out. Get going. As Ben Franklin said over 200 years ago up slugger and waste not life in the grave.
Doug: [00:21:44] We’ll be sleeping enough up slugger waste not life in the grave. We’ll be sleeping enough.
Tripp: [00:21:52] Prophetic words a lot of history and they’re associated with some names that I hadn’t. Well one name I hadn’t heard in a while which was Dr. Lloyd Nelson and I’d forgotten that he had worked at Nashua Corporation.
Tripp: [00:22:06] But the message there is very very profound. Was this one a year. I assume that you must have developed a relationship with Bill Conway when he was talking to you at that point you had known him for a few years.
Doug: [00:22:22] Yeah. It is amazing. I am been so blessed so blessed to get to spend time with Barry Bruno’s Walter Werner Bill Conway Kevin Cahill Dr. Deming’s grandson. The folks from the Deming Institute meeting with you and your approach to this it is amazing folks if you just go and say I need help. There’s so many people. And if there’s anything that gets me really mad really mad at baby boomers I’m being a baby boomer.
Doug: [00:22:57] One of the things that gets me really mad at baby boomers is so many of them frickin check out and they go I’m too old to keep doing this. Get over yourself. OK. There was a time when older people would mentor and help younger people and a whole lot of my generation I think you’re being pretty selfish when they’re not willing to give back what was given to them and to spend that time teaching them and I I try to do what I still am. I’m not good at it because I’m so driven forward trying to change the world but to stop and help those people which is part of the reason trip that I’m doing this podcast is because it gives us a way to reach people that you can’t reach otherwise. I mean not everything we’re saying is of any significance of value but if you get one little thing this Internet allows us to multiply. This stuff’s amazingly amazingly you know it’s a great medium no doubt.
Tripp: [00:23:53] And you know it’s interesting. I don’t know. You know are the Baby Boomers the selfish generation. I don’t know. It seems like it’s like you. Like you said so many who are and maybe it’s because of all the commercials who knows that you’ve saved enough for retirement.
Tripp: [00:24:11] Now get and go and retire move off to do something else and yet we’re living a lot longer now. So do you know what just makes sense to me that you’d want to do something more with that other than sit on a beach. I guess I don’t quite got that mentality.
Doug: [00:24:31] But to be fair the world has changed. This digital world. It can be hard to get to see you feel like your fish out of water. I got all of that and used to be master of your destiny. Now you’re not and that’s changed more than has changed for any generation. But I can tell you that if you ask for help whether it’s Gen Xers millennials or whatever the next one’s called they’re generally open to doing it.
Doug: [00:24:57] And to those that are younger go find a old fart like like me and go ask people ask them for help. Ask them for their thoughts you don’t have to do it don’t get in a fight but ask their perspective how they would approach it. I think you’ll be amazed. I think you’ll be amazed at how much wisdom there is. And when we start to change the culture of an organization sometimes the old people say to me. Well I guess it’s not for me anymore. I guess I’m out of here.
Doug: [00:25:25] I’m like No we need that wisdom you’ve got you have insights ideas your brain is full of stimulus we need your brain don’t check out but let’s learn to use it in a more effective way and make it fun again. Let’s make it fun again. And sometimes you win sometimes you know but but they we need all of it. We need the young people we need the old people we need the black brown in purple yellow whatever people we need everyone. We need everyone.
Tripp: [00:25:58] You know it’s interesting that you say that because you know when you present presented and a previous episode about you know the power of diversity in organizational cultures helping to get you more robust ideas out you mostly have a tendency to think in terms of nationality you know as opposed to age you know. But it’s the same thing. I mean there’s diversity of having lived for 50 60 years as there is diversity and somebody who’s 20 versus 30.
Tripp: [00:26:37] And it’s not just nationality. I think some of the and I think you’re right. I think some of the organizations are probably missing that that piece too. They’ve got a lot of younger cultures because of those reasons that you just said that you know they’re not as up to date on some of the Internet’s things that are out there. So but they do have perspective and they have a very different one than the generations that are kind of moving things right now which would be more millennials than the one that you didn’t mentioned is what was referenced in futurist. His name escapes me at the moment but “digital natives” which because they’ve always had computers you know their entire life They’re digital natives.
Tripp: [00:27:29] This is the Brain Brew Whisky Academy podcasts where we’re going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whiskey distillery business Eureka Ranch! team led by Doug Hall creating a craft Whiskey Company like has never been done before.
Tripp: [00:27:52] Ok. This is the Brain Brew Whiskey Academy and we didn’t leave you with a cliffhanger last time but I did have a bit of a discussion with Doug. So is privy to information that you as a listener weren’t which Doug wants to talk about the inner action of the parts. Now he didn’t tell me what that meant with regards to making whiskey but I think he’s going to share that with us now.
Doug: [00:28:17] Yeah. So here’s how you have to think about it. Okay. And whiskey is really a great great example of this. And whether it’s any idea you’re working with a product or service you’re not creating art. We’re creating a product or something. OK. So I’m not going to do art. What I’m talking about is doing new product a new service or new system or whatever it might be. And the way you have to think about it is as a system. And Dr. Deming defined a system is independent parts that work together to accomplish a comedy independent parts that work together to accomplish a comedy. And so basically the parts come together to create something bigger than themselves individually with regards to a product. This means product package positioning name production pricing all of these elements have to work together and you have to think about it as a whole. OK. So let me give you some examples. We may be working on a whiskey and we may be able to make this whiskey an amazing whiskey but it doesn’t have. There isn’t a good marketing story with it. I mean they just you know it’s just we’ve just done a good job and it doesn’t have something edgy something to work with here. I turned around and I used Japanese wood or I use 200 year wood or or Merola wood from South Africa or I find to make a bottle that’s really unique that can give me some element.
Doug: [00:29:59] But the minute I do that that creates a chain reaction of other aspects it’s like it’s like playing the you know the carnival game Whack a Mole with the moles keep bringing the heads up and you have to keep hitting him down. That’s what innovation is about. It’s juggling all of those pieces to make them all fit together and you start the effort on an idea and you might start from a technology might start from a package you might start from a concept might start from a vision of what you want to do and then you have to keep juggling all those parts to make them all fit together. And and that’s where the fun is. That’s where the fun is is how do you make this whole thing work. Sometimes you put the whole thing together and you go. The math doesn’t work. We can’t afford to do this know and it just doesn’t work. It’s just the math doesn’t work it’s too expensive and the media started throwing you off Start all over again. So we have a tendency to be silo mentality because in universities we have marketing people and engineering people and we’re in our silos on campuses.
Doug: [00:30:57] You’ve got to get over that and you have to be everybody is in it for the same comedy and you have to trade off these aspects and think about it as a whole. All of interactive part the idea can start from marketing. It can start from product the interest. Yes I talked to Pete craft who still is and I said Well I’m a marketing driven guy. I do pasting with them and you can tell they don’t get the products at all. They don’t stand them. They’re just into selling and that’s what I call mindless marketing and all a whole cheap but eventually the world will catch up with it. Then I talk to other people they’re all into the product. There’s no marketing with it. Well it might be nice usage of that but nobody is going to know it. No math is going to work. We need to have a healthy tension of these pieces working together with the interaction of the parts is greater than the sum of the parts it creates something amazing one plus one equals seventeen That’s what we’re looking for and that’s the magic of it is making all of these pieces come together to get to a whole.
Tripp: [00:31:59] Yeah. That’s good and I think I think you think of the analogy that they use with regards to whiskey. You know and I know you know Deming used the piano you know people would try and copy parts and do things of that sort and try and put it together and of course the piano wouldn’t play and I imagine that’s kind of the same process of oh we got all these great ingredients that have all the best ingredients in the world but if it’s not the right combination of ingredients that you’re putting into your whiskey it’s going to taste awful. And I think that in the nature of your process of you know learning through PDSA and through your cycles then allows you to get to the point to perfect that and and get all of those individual pieces to sing together as opposed to the one prima donna that that’s trying to sing a solo.
Tripp: [00:32:52] And you’re right. I mean no matter what business they are and that that that’s always the challenge just trying to get all of the pieces together. Talking about bureaucracy is as the same view of that. I mean because there’s so many different pieces. And if they’re not constructed right then you’re not going to provide a good product or service an association with that.
Doug: [00:33:16] Mm hmm. Oh yeah. And you could see it if you take people and they hand it off from department to department you have no chance of getting it.
Doug: [00:33:23] You have to truly work together. You have to truly work together to make this happen. And so you know when you’re small it’s easier. The challenge is as you get bigger and bigger and you start to lose some of that but that spirit of keeping it together which is why you know Apple famously has a very small design team that does all of these amazing things. The core team the same thing here with Bremer. We’ve got a very small team of us to do the creation and we’ve got respect from one another and we’ll push and poke and you know when I’m making a whiskey I can make it so many different ways I can use more wood and lower pressure less wood higher pressure I can do more cycles I can ramp them faster slower I’ve got twenty two variables I can play with to try to make that per product do the thing I wanted to do so that it speaks to the consumer creating the experience and I’m trying to create. It’s amazing what you can do and but you have to be willing to let go of where you are you’ve got to be willing to let go of. Well you know what I’ve got it. Okay. Yeah we made it and it’s great but now we’re going to make it better and that’s what we’re looking to do that that.
Tripp: [00:34:33] Well now I know what the interaction of parts meant that you talked about before this particular section. Okay well I knew that.
Tripp: [00:34:41] Okay what’s what’s moved to your craft cocktail recipe. The Peace Treaty its trademark picture cocktail whose trademark is that yeah.
Doug: [00:34:53] This is a trademark. You know there’s cocktails that have trademarks on them. I will put it out to the industry a lot. But the peace treaty remember I just said they got all work together. Oh yeah. It has to be a peace treaty. You have to work together. We sign a treaty for the common good.
Doug: [00:35:12] You get it.
Tripp: [00:35:14] No I didn’t. You got me on that one.
Doug: [00:35:18] It’s also a Peace Treaty because we move this up. Normally when this first release normally you release on Thursdays and we released it on Wednesday before U.S. Thanksgiving because with the political debate that goes on I figured there needed to be some peace treaty at the Thanksgiving table here given the state of U.S. You didn’t see that one government did you know.
Tripp: [00:35:44] You got you you got me at the U.S. Thanksgiving because I always forget there’s a Canadian one. So okay. But you’re right. All right. You’re Canadian. I forgive you.
Doug: [00:35:55] I’m just as much 50 percent Canadian as my mom would say.
Tripp: [00:35:59] So so this cocktail is a craft cocktail and I don’t even know where it originally began but it’s gone through a lot of evolutions and and my drinking buddies I guess you shouldn’t say drinking buddies. My good friends Tim and Sue Hogan were on Prince Edward Island this summer for a week and we just had a glorious time kayaking and sailing and eating seafood and stuff. And we did a lot of fun with cocktails and we stumbled into this cocktail that we’ve kept working on. And it’s it’s the first cocktail that we’ve done that is I’m calling it’s a pitcher cocktail. It’s the kind of cocktail you make a picture of you know you see in the movies they make a pitcher of martinis which I can’t even imagine. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know it’s a different time go.
Tripp: [00:36:46] All the garnish and all the stuff.
Doug: [00:36:50] A whole pitcher of martinis you know. I mean that’s basically just gin a little bit of booze.
Doug: [00:36:57] You know it’s a it’s like pure alcohol. And so but this is a pitcher drink and it’s it’s a great example of independent parts coming together to create something magical. So this is exactly on line with what we just talked about. That was the purpose. And in this case orange and cranberry balance out the earthiness of maple syrup and whiskey so you’ve got this kind of cool tension between the earthy notes and the fruit notes that is just it’s magical. And in fact I’m gonna give it to you in two recipes. One is the pitcher and one is the one great. And in the pitcher recipe I went to the one and a half ounce per serving and you can probably cut it to one ounce per serving for the alcohol because they’re going to drink so many things you want to get it down unless you got a stupid brother in law that you just need to get him to go to bread because he’s gonna drink too much in this case just haven’t given to him or whatever.
Tripp: [00:37:56] That’s me.
Doug: [00:37:57] So I got my father in law. Oh wonderful. So in fact when I did a radio show he did a wonderful section we’re gonna play some of those some of that was a Brain Brew radio show that ran and marketed some wonderful only and main segments it was just wonderful.
Doug: [00:38:16] So anyway so it’s called peace treaty and it is designed to be one for everybody to come together. It is a drink that you can make and everybody can see. People say I’m not into whiskey I’m not into this I meant to be. No no I wanted to make a drink. And Tim Sue Debbie and I we wanted to drink that everybody would say I love that. That’s great. And we could share it together. The communal kind of thing that we could do.
Doug: [00:38:41] And so to make a pitcher you know what you’re gonna do is half cup of maple syrup.
Doug: [00:38:48] Two thirds of a cup of orange juice.
Doug: [00:38:50] Again the recipes in the Show Notes it’s.
Doug: [00:38:52] Two thirds of a cup of cranberry juice.
Doug: [00:38:56] A cup of Relativity whiskey or other craft bourbon or rye and Relativity is our product it’s up in the Boston area. And that’s gonna give you about one and a half ounces per serving.
Doug: [00:39:04] And then add some 7-up to taste and don’t use sprite you 7-Up I’ve done tests it works better in these cocktails and then start gently and Tripp how many times do we stir it.
Tripp: [00:39:15] Thirteen times. And that’s right. Yeah lucky 13 not twelve not or pirates a dozen as some people would call it.
[00:39:24] Yeah. And then add some ice to the pitcher or poured over glasses with ice and garnish with lemon and orange slices sort of make you a nice pitcher and you’ll have some fun you got to start a little bit.
Doug: [00:39:35] It it really. There’s something magical that happens with the maple syrup you can use the lighter syrup or the darker serve a bit depending upon how robust you want it but there’s just a wonderful tension that goes on here between the orange and cranberry and the Maple which it does give you a holiday dimension to it. And so it’s a it’s a real festive drink. I can tell you at the at the ranch holiday party we have it. These will be making pictures. So these if you want to make one drink just take a large eyeball all or large rocks glass. Yes be pretty good size three quarters of an ounce of maple syrup one ounce of OJ one ounce of cranberry juice and then announced a half or two ounces of whiskey with a splash of seven up again garnish at the same.
Doug: [00:40:25] So just a fun drink. And I really would push for you to do a picture because we had some friends over on Saturday night and I made a drink and then I made another drink and then I know how make a picture. And so we only make pitchers of this stuff now because it is one of those. There is a certain set of drinks. The Hemingway Daquiri is one of them the Peace Treaty is one of those there’s certain drinks that are just fun for people to have.
Doug: [00:40:58] And in fact this went out and I immediately got a note from somebody I’m getting a couple of notes as it’s amazing how this thing the feedback loop that you get is just amazing these days.
Doug: [00:41:10] And hold on one second they said these guys wrote Doug the peace treaty may be your greatest inspiration yet Doug. The peace treaty may be your greatest inspiration yet just in time for the holidays. So, Tripp I’ve got all this research. I’ve gotten honorary doctorates for Attorney innovation into a science. I’ve read books I’ve read plays. I’ve got all these things and I’m going to be well known because he makes a cool guy.
Tripp: [00:41:43] You’re only redeeming quality huh. I got it. Your audience can always bring you up or down isn’t that. Isn’t that the truth. So so Doug. This this drink is it. It sounds very sweet.
Doug: [00:41:59] No it’s not too bad. It isn’t. OK. Maple syrup Isn’t it and you’ve got a whole lot of that orange and cranberry in there but it’s not it’s really balanced. It’s really really balance. You know cranberry juice is very tart. So you know it’s not it’s not. I mean if you want if it’s too much it you know you could take the Serb down and you could add some more lemon juice to it I guess. But it’s pretty balanced.
Doug: [00:42:25] It’s pretty balanced OK. Very good.
Tripp: [00:42:28] I’ll have to give that one a shot I’m missing a few things there and I’m at this late date. I’m not going to the grocery store stay away from that place. OK. Well I. This is an interesting. I like the way you were weaving in the interaction of the parts with the drink that you pick. You did. You did. You did throw the curve ball at me on that one. So very good. All right.
Doug: [00:42:54] Any cliffhangers for our next one. Next week I’m going to talk about paired comparison tests. I’m going to get geeky because you know people say I don’t like to do math. I said well then you don’t wanna do math. OK. How about if I don’t do the math and figure out how much to pay you. Well I want you do the math on that. Do you want to make money. Get over yourself. You’ve got to do math. No math no project no innovation. That’s kind of key to this stuff and these singular most important test is the paired comparison test the paired comparison test. And I’m going to take you through just like I took you through back a while ago I took you through how to find out if you meaning fleeting. I really want to take you through was that in this episode that did that. No no with the interaction the parts. Yeah. So. So just. Yes I did in a recent episode. Right took you through how to do a single product test to see if you meaningfully unique. I’m going to walk you through how to do paired comparison tests and we’ll show you how to do that. Talk it through. And I’m also at the same time we have three paired comparison tests out tonight just tonight. And so I’ll have the results and and and some of that I have to keep secret but in general I’m going to walk you through what we learned from those three tests and how we use this because this is the nitty gritty folks. This is the stuff you need to do to make it great. You don’t. If you want to make a business and if you want to build a business you’re going to have to do some stuff because it takes a lot of work to get your whiskey registered to get your label done to get all of that stuff done.
Doug: [00:44:35] And you got to reduce your chances of failure and you do that through some testing before you make those decisions. And so I’m going to show you how to do that and to get you going.
Tripp: [00:44:45] Ok. Well I’ll give everyone the opportunity to prepare for some interesting information especially on doing paired comparison tests. Well for the audience and for you Doug I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving and I know what.
Tripp: [00:45:03] Well obviously Canada has a different date but and for the international crowd they’re probably going What the heck is Thanksgiving. OK. I thought I saw I heard I heard a sound guy there and I just want to wish him right there. Happy Thanksgiving. I know this is gonna come out after the Thanksgiving time but it’s the holiday season.
Doug: [00:45:20] Yes it is. And Tripp I’m a little concerned about this because of a post just came through on social media. We’d put out about the fact that we’re going to be doing this podcast. And oh until he got it. No he said and I’m not sure how. First I thought it was good and then I said Hmm I’m not sure. Oh and said This is relating the fact that the new podcast is coming out and he said and the world will never be quite the same. Anyway dot dot dot dot. Fill in the blank of that. I don’t know.
Tripp: [00:46:09] Well we’re changing the world. How’s that.
Doug: [00:46:12] I guess we’ll find out in a good way or bad way. Hey you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and everybody out there have a wonderful holiday season and we’ll see you next week
Tripp: [00:46:26] Because we appreciate you as a listener. We are offering for limited time for things. A one hour abridged audio of the driving Eureka book. A subscription to the driving Eureka newsletter which contains weekly advice from Doug Hall on how to find filter and fast track big ideas And the newsletter has other offers that are not made public. The driving Eureka prescription for success you answer questions and will help you assess your ability to find filter and fast track big ideas And you get advice on how to grow your ability to innovate and the last item. Access to a Doug Hall interview with a radio legend. To get these offers. Go to w w w Dot Doug Hall dot com forward slash podcast.
[00:47:27] And don’t forget to subscribe To the Driving Eureka! podcast on iTunes.